Staff Report / Appeal

[Violence]

Your Steam Name: Violence
Your Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:70324571
Your Character Name: Jay Violence

Admin being reported: @mclovin & @The JD

Reason for Report: Warning Point & Demotion
Situation: Hostage situation in a property that I owned (Industrial 4). The hostage failed to follow orders given to him as a result he was executed and a gunfight between us and police began. The gunfight lasted several minutes and as it came closer to an end we was thinking about pushing out. It came to a point where there was only 3 Officers remaining outside, myself and another member pushed out of the building with the intention to kill the remaining officers and escape. We killed all the remaining officers and confirmed that they were the last officers via a spotter on the stairs near the Taxi building. I remember briefly a loot bag being on the stairs and proceeded to enter the buildings staircase to loot it, in which I then turned around and exited the building clearly fleeing the scene. I was then dragged to a rooftop by JD who was then joined 3 Minutes later by mclovin. I believe at the time JD was just following orders and mclovin was the actual one giving the shots so just keep that in mind.

Rule:

1. During a police raid, the defending party of a raid is required to stay within their property limits unless their intention is to flee and hide from law enforcement.

So this is rule I've apparently broken and to an extent I can see how I may have broken it but I'll explain a bit more. So according to this rule we have to remain within the property at all costs unless fleeing, this is what we did throughout the whole raid, we stayed inside and did not attempt to leave or leave until the point you see in the video. In the video that is when we had the intentions to flee now keep that in mind, from that point on-wards we had the intention to flee, there was no way we was ever going to go back inside and hold the building. Now this is where for me it gets dodgy, I did exit the building with the whole intentions of fleeing the scene you can even see that in the video, however I didn't see the point of leaving valuable loot on the ground inside the building for some civilians or police to come a long and confiscate it so I made the decision to quickly loot the bag of Ron and then immediately turn around and leave the building that is where I have an issue because throughout that whole sequence I still had the intentions of fleeing which is within the rules, nor does it say that I cannot re-enter the building when the situation is clear (Which is because we killed all the police in the area). Now I would completely understand if we exited to kill the police and then moved back into the building to hold it against any other police that came that is clearly against the rule above however that is not what I proceeded to do, I proceeded to enter the building again still the intentions of fleeing to loot a weapon that was left behind in less then 15 seconds and then re-exited the building to leave. I just feel that the rule above was taken out of proportion because I believe in the rule fully but I just disagree in the way it was used against me, I mean I literally ran back inside for a loot bag that was pretty much at the entrance of the building for less then 15 seconds and then proceeded to flee.

I'll break this down: During a police raid, the defending party of a raid is required to stay within their property limits (We stayed within the property throughout the whole situation) unless their intention is to flee and hide from law enforcement. (As per my video I then fled the scene even attempting to conceal my assault rifle).
Time of Occurrence: 19:00
Evidence to support your claim:

Additional members involved/witnessing: @DarkZiom4Ever @Cuddles @John Johnson CO.

I've already been demoted from Mentor once and was given the opportunity to do the job again, so I highly doubt anything will happen on that end but with the Warning Point, I've been clean for so long I just disagree with the way the rule was used.

 

[SomebodyEp1c]

As I've been tagged in this post I'll also give my side to the story as this is absurd, I come back from being a little break and I get notified over the radio that my friends are in a gunfight with the cops at industrial apartment 4, by now they have killed most of the cops and have started to slowly push down the staircase with 2 cops remaining outside (Swat officer - L115 and Leuitenant - M4 Carbine) I gave them the call to start pushing out as the Leuitenant went up the ramp and lost LOS on them, therefore they did so and after pushing out and killing the Swat officer, some of them prepared the cars and rammed the cop cars out the way of the exit. This is where Violence stepped back inside the building to pick up the remaining items left from the people that died during that gunfight (And if you think this is a rule break then ill put this into your perspective as this is meant to be Role-play similar to real life situations - Group gets into a shoot out with the cops and by a miracle they manage to win it, they prepare their escape as it is obvious that more cops will show up on scene very soon, but before doing that some of them go back inside the building the fight originally began in and get rid of some of the evidence that will point straight back at them allowing cops an easier search.) This to me seems what violence did but instead of this being "evidence" it would have been the expensive guns, - This could have resulted in these guns being minge grabbed/Confiscated by the police. Also, Violence has been trying his best as a mentor helping as many people as he possibly can.

 

[mclovin]

dear, @Violence


So in your video it clearly shows you leaving the property, running across the street killing a cop, looking for more cops in the area, then ran back in the building and then looted. which is in violation of rule 12 in the criminal raiding rules which states

• During a police raid, the defending party of a raid is required to stay within their property limits unless their intention is to flee and hide from law enforcement.

in which you did not do. it has also been noted that if you were to break rules again to inform gregg of this matter.

Kind regards,
Mclovin

 

[The JD]

Violence, as clearly shown by the video you provided you left the property of which the raid was taking place in which Is a clear violation of rules. You are a very knowledgeable player but as to the demotion you broke the rules of which mclovin quoted above. This is not tolerable for anyone that us staff. You also had been demoted once before for a rule break and were given mentor agian but with a strict cermstances and you did break a rule. Ik u didnt mean to but you have to know and follow the rules. You also have a record with several warning points.

 

[Violence]

dear, @Violence


So in your video it clearly shows you leaving the property, running across the street killing a cop, looking for more cops in the area, then ran back in the building and then looted. which is in violation of rule 12 in the criminal raiding rules which states

• During a police raid, the defending party of a raid is required to stay within their property limits unless their intention is to flee and hide from law enforcement.

in which you did not do. it has also been noted that if you were to break rules again to inform gregg of this matter.

Kind regards,
Mclovin

Violence, as clearly shown by the video you provided you left the property of which the raid was taking place in which Is a clear violation of rules. You are a very knowledgeable player but as to the demotion you broke the rules of which mclovin quoted above. This is not tolerable for anyone that us staff. You also had been demoted once before for a rule break and were given mentor agian but with a strict cermstances and you did break a rule. Ik u didnt mean to but you have to know and follow the rules. You also have a record with several warning points.

Thanks for your reply,

I'd like to state that this rule is more based towards keeping people inside the building during a raid so that police know the exact location of the people they are engaged on and to also restrict random civilians from engaging police. If we really want to move towards the rules I can break it down even further.

Based on my video you cannot deny that I did not have the intention to leave, because I actually left and there is no way that you can say I never had the intentions so purely on that basis I was following this rule because I only need to have the intention to leave which is what I had. So once I left and killed off the remaining the cops I still had the intentions of fleeing, It's hard to deny that fact because of my video. If I had fled at that point when would I be able to re-enter the building? Because it's not specified in the rules, I was told by JD 10 Minutes after the raid but I can't find any reference to that in the rules so when exactly would I be able to re-enter to pick up props or left over loot? My original idea was to leave the building kill the remaining police and flee however I remembered there was loot on the staircase so I re-entered (Which isn't technically against the rules, as again it doesn't say when I can or can't re-enter the building), looted and then fled, again I still had the intentions of fleeing the scene which is following the rule.

From an RP Perspective in this context it doesn't make scene why would a criminal leave valuable gear & evidence at the scene of the crime when they know the situation is clear and that within 15 seconds afterwards they can still flee without being engaged upon.

Violence, as clearly shown by the video you provided you left the property of which the raid was taking place in which Is a clear violation of rules.

@The JD
Leaving the property during a raid isn't against the rules, it literally states in the rules that I can leave during a raid if I have the intentions of fleeing?


I would understand if the rules were something along the lines of:

During a police raid, the defending party of a raid is required to stay within their property limits unless their intention is to flee and hide from law enforcement.
- You may not re-enter the building within 10 Minutes of fleeing the scene.
- All Props & Gear must have been retrieved prior to fleeing the building.

 

[The JD]

Yes violence but u went back if you leave the property you have to do just that leave. You can't come back to the property which you did so you just wanted to kill the swat. Then went back and after you went back and looted you left so the time you left to kill swat you had not intent to leave at that time.

 

[Violence]

Yes violence but u went back if you leave the property you have to do just that leave. You can't come back to the property which you did so you just wanted to kill the swat. Then went back and after you went back and looted you left so the time you left to kill swat you had not intent to leave at that time.

I would understand you if I pushed out to kill the police who were holding angles that you cannot see from the building and then re-enter the building to hold it for as long as possible, but that is not what I did, I feel that no matter how many times I explain it I literally went back in for 15 seconds to retrieve gear that is valuable to criminals and then left as you can see I still had the INTENTIONS of fleeing. Again the rule doesn't even state when I'm allowed to re-enter so how would I know when to? To Staff that small Loot Bag on the floor means pretty much nothing but to the people in the situation that bag could contain 10-30 Minutes of resource gathering, 10-20 Minutes of crushing, 10-20 Minutes of Smelting & crafting or simply just 10,000-20,000 worth of gear, and to risk loosing that to a rule that doesn't even state when a person can re-enter the building after leaving is wrong IMO.

 

[Gregg]

Under review.

 

[Gregg]

Hey there, thank you for your patience.

I went ahead and reviewed the report it self, I took into account all sides of this report. And I will highlight some points.

During a police raid, the defending party of a raid is required to stay within their property limits unless their intention is to flee and hide from law enforcement.

This rule that was enforced, it's kind of loose. The interpretation of this rule, in my eyes, would be enforced based off pure intention to be malicious or otherwise hinder the roleplay of those involved. While I do not 100% agree with this rules enforcement in this situation, as this situation didn't 100% violate this rule... I could not fault my staff members for enforcing this rule either. They were acting in good faith here, and enforced something that wouldn't necessarily be full fault of the player involved. This could have been easier a rule clarification for the player, and told to be careful with their actions and intentions.

While there will be no punishments issued to the staff involved, I will advise them of this rule and speak to them if possible regarding this situation for further clarification, to see why this was enforced, and make sure we are really only punishing full on for malicious intents.

As for Mentor, again. Mentorship will be revoked regardless, with no chance of reinstatement, for Violence.

Staff report concluded.