MRP Discord 5-6 Lines Spamming Rule [Change Suggestion]

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DangerZone640

Monolith Addict
NOTICE: This post is only suggesting the way this rule is implemented NOT what the rule is, I believe they have the right intent for the existence of the rule but the way it is implemented is not beneficial.
ALSO IMPORTANT: This is a suggestion worthy of Discussion, not complaining. No "I got muted/warned for this yea lets do it!". Keep reading and you can see what I mean by the rule change, this is a suggestion, not a complaint letter.
Description of suggestion: Change how @Lola Meid's "5-6 Spam" Rule is implemented into discord.
The Reason why it should be added
: People just want a casual conversation without a stick up their bum about how they type.
The way I believe this should be implemented is just have it so anyone who is quite obviously spamming should be punished for their actions, things like one or two words in a line just spamming on purpose or complaining about something.
Where I believe that it shouldn't be enforced is when someone is just trying to get a point across and is having a casual conversation with a few people. A strong example of this is how @rako talks, he talks quite often just by typing new lines instead of one long sentence, which I believe is perfectly fine as he doesn't just go on spamming for years by himself and -as I said- it depends on the situation and how @Lola Meid sees it as either spamming or not She is quite honestly the only staff member who is extremely picky on how people communicate to my knowledge. This may or may not be true however she always goes back through discord combing through looking at stuff, I've also heard she loves combing through deleted messages but I cannot confirm so I don't consider this true but I am sure it does with her job.. Now, this also depends on the frequency of how this occurs and the situation where it is implemented, if someone is complaining about no staff members on the server and are spamming multiple lines then I see the reason to warn. Same way as if someone were having an unconstructive argument and spamming multiple lines, then I see a reason to warn.

TLDR- Change the rule so casual conversations with multiple lines aren't considered a "rule breach", but using common sense the staff member can depict whether someone is purposefully spamming or not.

I also believe the pinned image should be reworded so that she can convey her message more appropriately.
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If we were having a convo with one person then the discord would literally be completely useless as most conversations start up between two people; i.e the image of Rako and Valentino talking (Spoiler Below). (Also, Situation dependent). This could be resolved by.... (plan to make a separate suggestion for this)

[More text above just got this snapshot]
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Here, this is an example of a regular conversation between Rako and @Valentino Meid. This is a perfect scenario where the rule should not apply as they are having a casual conversation and there is no sense of purposeful spam going on in this specific image.
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Example of myself and what I consider to be adequate lines.
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Now, I believe this one I do think the way that she did it here was absolutely perfect in my books, she pointed out the spam rule (this was a lot of lines) and she also noted what further actions he could do. This was also not a casual conversation as they were rambling by themselves and could have easily edited their message to get their point across. (Again, depends on the situation)
Also-also-also, this depends strongly on the chat. Someone who "spams" in #tech-talk that is relative to the topic of the channel and isn't purposefully spamming because they feel like it shouldn't be warned or muted as this is a relatively low traffic channel same as #gaming. This is different for a chat like #general where there is high traffic of messages and there is a strong difficulty in finding messages that are against the rules. (I cannot stress this enough, It depends on the situation)
 
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Lola Meid

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I feel flattered that you go out of your way to make an essay about my implementation of the spam rule. However there are some things that you've written that are simply not true.

1. I don't go out of my way to check every single thing written in the discord general chat. I simply do not have the motivation to care that much nor the time to monitor what's been said. Kinda weird that you'd think that I do, but in many occasions have people been spamming without being caught.

2. Nor do I have the motivation/care enough to look through deleted messages. I think the things of what you've heard should be looked at with scepticism - I find it rather offensive that you'd put all these lies in a thread to try and make a point. Seems rather immature.

3. The way the rule has been written and implemented in my opinion is as it should be. Anyone should learn how to write appropriately in the chat. However, I've been very easy going with people making their points in multiple lines. Doesn't mean they should not learn how to get their point across without having to write the whole page full.

Let me remind you that this rule is only for #general. 9/10 when Rako is passionate about answering, is when it is dev-discussion related. Going through #discussion, there's plenty of people speaking in probably 10 lines. I do not care about that at all. General chat should stay simple as there is no discussion needed, so no pages of full text needed.
 
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DangerZone640

Monolith Addict
I feel flattered that you go out of your way to make an essay about my implementation of the spam rule. However there are some things that you've written that are simply not true.

1. I don't go out of my way to check every single thing written in the discord general chat. I simply do not have the motivation to care that much nor the time to monitor what's been said. Kinda weird that you'd think that I do, but in many occasions have people been spamming without being caught.

2. Nor do I have the motivation/care enough to look through deleted messages. I think the things of what you've heard should be looked at with scepticism - I find it rather offensive that you'd put all these lies in a thread to try and make a point. Seems rather immature.

3. The way the rule has been written and implemented in my opinion is as it should be. Anyone should learn how to write appropriately in the chat. However, I've been very easy going with people making their points in multiple lines. Doesn't mean they should not learn how to get their point across without having to write the whole page full.
Since we're going with a list I'll go with one aswell
1. You are basically the only staff member I see who always points out spamming in a normal conversation so I had the assumption that you go out of your way to do so but I doubted this from the begging as I stated (although I didnt place it correctly)
2. Immature or rather examining all (lack of a better term) the possibilities that I had in mind. I had simply heard that you look through deleted messages and as i stated i doubted this from the begging as well but "leave no stone unturned."
3. I dont doubt what you believe the rule should be but everyone has their right to an opinion which I believe applies not only to you, but to everyone aswell, this is why I made a suggestion in the first place so others may get their point across as well. People should be able to type as they like (in regards to what we've been talking about) but within proper reasoning of the rules and all that jazz. If you would just have the situational awareness to sense the conversation and only intervene when it is proper spam (I would get if it were excessive line spamming) but this depends on your interpretation of what is spam which to you is line count (in regards to this subject). I dont deny your intentions as I can clearly see that they are for the better however there are situations where the wording of the rule could be (lack of a better term) interpreted differently.

I am open to criticism as I believe you have given and I dont doubt you are wrong as we have different perspectives on the same issue which I am glad you have shared, however my opinion still stands on the rule change.
 
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rako

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Jun 15, 2017
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Thank you, DangerZone - Those were my feelings for the longest time and I have thought about raising my concerns about this in the past, but I decided I don't want to argue over such a "small" thing.
I have never seen anybody else enforcing this rule, no-one, BUT Lola enforces it.

3. The way the rule has been written and implemented in my opinion is as it should be. Anyone should learn how to write appropriately in the chat.
I really don't think we should tell anybody to change their typing habits (unless it's racist, sexist, offensive) just because you (we, staff) don't deem it appropriate, who are we to tell people how should they type? What's next, tell me I can't have a horse as my avatar because somebody was hurt by one, or identifies as a horse?
Thing is, why is my way of typing any less appropriate than your big wall of text? Discord is like an IRC chat, it's not a FORUM, it doesn't create a new post, it doesn't even look that bad (in my eyes). While I understand the rule on the forums, when it comes down to discord It's down to personal preference of typing, and telling me to change my habits that are non intrusive to others is something I see as personal attack (or some sort of).

Nobody bat an eye when Thy used /tts (few months ago) in general channels, causing temporary chaos - In fact it encouraged memery and positive discussion.
I feel like this rule is something just to power trip on other people, it's not implemented in other discords simply because it's... dumb.
It personally discouraged me from typing in general channels. It stopped and discouraged numerous proper conversations simply because of a third party that wasn't discussing anything deemed the writing style inappropriate.

If you're holding a conversation with one person you're asked to have a PM with them... What's the point then? I want to have a conversation whilst inviting others to join. Discord servers don't cost anything, there is no downside to having thousands of messages in a channel.

Adding to that, if you really want to enforce writing BIG messages instead of a sentence broken down - Why not put a slow mode on the discord that lasts 1-2 seconds top?
 
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Lola Meid

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Saying I am "basically" the only staff member enforcing it, is again an assumption. Reading Dangerzone's text, I've read the word "Doubt" about three to four times, proving my point that you're using false points to "make a statement". That's not about examining possibilities or not wanting to leave stones unturned, but forwarding false accusations that you've heard from others with no evidence to back that up.

As said, General chat is a chat that remains without "thousands words" as it does do harm to people who want a clear overview. That's my reason of the rule and it has been efficient for a long while. What has been stated above seems rather looked at from a irrational point (bringing character to the table --> irrelevant comparison). Nobody is power tripping - don't know how you can call it that as I don't think anyone gains any satisfaction from telling others not to spam. I sure don't.

I don't mind looking at the rule from different (concrete) view, but this is simply chat moderation. Discord is not a place to go crazy just because it ain't the forums.

I don't want an argument on what is supposed to be a suggestion/feedback, so perhaps leave room for discussion instead of irrelevant/ inaccurate information. Otherwise, we'd go nowhere.
 

DangerZone640

Monolith Addict
Saying I am "basically" the only staff member enforcing it, is again an assumption. Reading Dangerzone's text, I've read the word "Doubt" about three to four times, proving my point that you're using false points to "make a statement". That's not about examining possibilities or not wanting to leave stones unturned, but forwarding false accusations that you've heard from others with no evidence to back that up.

As said, General chat is a chat that remains without "thousands words" as it does do harm to people who want a clear overview. That's my reason of the rule and it has been efficient for a long while. What has been stated above seems rather looked at from a irrational point (bringing character to the table --> irrelevant comparison). Nobody is power tripping - don't know how you can call it that as I don't think anyone gains any satisfaction from telling others not to spam. I sure don't.

I don't mind looking at the rule from different (concrete) view, but this is simply chat moderation. Discord is not a place to go crazy just because it ain't the forums.

I don't want an argument on what is supposed to be a suggestion/feedback, so perhaps leave room for discussion instead of irrelevant/ inaccurate information. Otherwise, we'd go nowhere.
First thing I would like to get out of the way is the fact that I doubt myself a lot, I don't like to take myself as my own primary source of evidence and I am told by many people, I doubt myself too much but that is just me. However, just because I may doubt myself doesn't mean what I am saying is untrue. We all have our own viewpoints however more often than not I see that you look at things from your view only and you act upon what you believe is right. There are many situations that can back this up and just having your opinion in the matter shouldn't be here. We need to have the opinions of all CMs and SDs maybe even SAs on the matter, not one CM who believes they are correct (Again no evidence so blah blah blah false claims blah blah blah). I don't wanna start a whole spiral of an argument but this is dumb and needs to be amended. We are fighting a losing battle due to Oppression however without "solid evidence" nothing can be said so I won't continue.

Second, "this is simply chat moderation", there are plenty of discords that are muuuuch larger than monolith that handles moderation in a much better standard as I have pointed out many times before on or not on the forums and as Rako has stated he sees how you moderate as well as I am sure many others do.
 

Lola Meid

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You have failed to give room for discussion and yet again come up with irrelevant standpoints (you having a lot of doubts has literally nothing to do with the discussion nor the fact you are yet again coming with false accusations). Also may I remind you that this is Monolith, not like thousands other discord servers.

Sadly I will close the suggestion myself, but will give room to @Stuvi @Thy to inform me what can be done about this rule to make it more easy for both positions (player and staff).
 
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Stuvi

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Moved to denied.
 
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