PR - RDM'd and Powergaming

[Bob Santoro]

Your Steam Name: QUISPPP
Your SteamID: https:/steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198220526820
Your Character Name: Bob Santoro

Target Steam Name: louis azize
Target SteamID: STEAM_0:1:184400592
Target Character Name (if known): IDK

Target Steam Name: maybe waifu
Target SteamID: STEAM_0:1:96490540
Target Character Name (if known): IDK

Target Steam Name: Tony Ravioli
Target SteamID: STEAM_0:1:35214932
Target Character Name (if known): IDK

Target Steam Name: Cloud
Target SteamID: STEAM_0:1:468108179
Target Character Name (if known): IDK

Request Reason: We just had raided L2 Bank and then we decided to go to the drop-off and get the money; next thing you know these guys mug us (power gaming). Not to mention, the handcuff breaker NPC and drug dealer NPC are right next to us. It got even worse when Rob and I kept our hands up for about a minute and a half after the muggers left, only for them to just randomly gun us down from the top of the waterfall for no reason.
When did the situation occur?: 10:30 PM Friday EST
Your evidence to support your claim: https://medal.tv/clips/41480530/d133732gMJil
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2363211716
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2363211729
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2363211667


Additional members involved/witnessing: @Damp Eggplant
Read, understood and followed player report rules?: Yes

 

[Damp Eggplant]

I was there and I can confirm that they were mugging us at dropoff(powergaming) they also gave no commands to keep our hands up after they left. As you can see when they started shooting we put our hands back up but they still shot us- even though they should not have started shooting in the first place

 

[Alphadef]

Under Review

 

[Alphadef]

@Tony Ravioli You are mentioned in this player report. Please respond within 24 hours or it will be processed without your input.
As far as I can tell the other 3 players (Treeshin, Cloud, and Retro_Football) do not currently have forum accounts. However, as we are awaiting Tony Ravioli's response already anyways, they are also free to and encouraged to make an account and respond to this if they wish to have any input as well.

 

[tone]

I was told that they told them not to put there hands down or they were to be killed so when we saw them put hands down we shot them plain and simple.

 

[Alphadef]

I was told that they told them not to put there hands down or they were to be killed so when we saw them put hands down we shot them plain and simple.

You were very well away at that point. Why did you guys feel the need to stop at the bridge and look down and check on them?

 

[Alphadef]

I would also like to ask, since it is unclear from the provided evidence which of these is correct:
1) The muggers were waiting at the drop off point for the raiders to arrive.
2) The muggers followed the raiders to the drop off.
3) The raiders dropped it off and then the muggers came by to check the drop off point for the raiders.

 

[Bob Santoro]

@Alphadef the second statement is correct. Rob and I had raided L2 Bank, and they had followed us all the way to the drop off in their car. Furthermore, in response to Tony Ravioli's statement that "we told them to put their hands up", we had done this for almost a minute and a half after they left, and you can only hold a civilian to that mug standard for like 30 seconds at most. Plus, as you said, they had clearly left the area, and we were no threat to them.

 

[tone]

i'd like to add that it was a lie that they were going to dropoff after a bank raid as when we told them to get out of the car neither of them had a bag.

 

[tone]

You were very well away at that point. Why did you guys feel the need to stop at the bridge and look down and check on them?

the driver stopped at the bridge to check on them when they got out, i did.

 

[tone]

also the recording shows $0 unless they can prove they raided bank with robs pov and him having bank money its a clear lie.

 

[Bob Santoro]

also the recording shows $0 unless they can prove they raided bank with robs pov and him having bank money its a clear lie.

True, from my recording I had 0$ because Rob was the one with the bag. I'm pretty sure an admin could check logs and see that Rob had deployed a bag and gotten the money though. This still doesn't really explain why you plainly rdm'd us.

 

[Kingpin]

They didnt even have a bag when we mugged them, we followed them for at least 5 to 10min to mug them.

 

[Damp Eggplant]

i'd like to add that it was a lie that they were going to dropoff after a bank raid as when we told them to get out of the car neither of them had a bag.

Bud it was probably not the best idea to lie about something that logs can show because @Alphadef if you look in logs you'll see that I deposited at the dropoff a few seconds before we were mugged-they tried but they were too late. I had a cheap bag with two large stacks- Tony maybe you shouldn't lie about something that can be shown in logs it will just dig you deeper in a hole.

 

[Damp Eggplant]

I was told that they told them not to put there hands down or they were to be killed so when we saw them put hands down we shot them plain and simple.

This seems to contradict your following statement:

the driver stopped at the bridge to check on them when they got out, i did.

Also you can clearly see in Bob's video that you guys were clearly gone and you just wanted to RDM us

 

[Damp Eggplant]

Steam Community :: Damp Eggplant :: Screenshots

steamcommunity.com

Steam Community :: Damp Eggplant :: Screenshots

steamcommunity.com

As Bob's video there were no commands to keep our hands up either- these screenshots also show the moment when they leave and you can clearly see no commands were given to keep our hands up.

 

[tone]

Steam Community :: Damp Eggplant :: Screenshots

steamcommunity.com

Steam Community :: Damp Eggplant :: Screenshots

steamcommunity.com

As Bob's video there were no commands to keep our hands up either- these screenshots also show the moment when they leave and you can clearly see no commands were given to keep our hands up.

he recorded well after the fact you got out of the car which is convenient for you as you didnt have a bag and on top of that. it was recorded after he gave the demand not to put hands down

 

[Bob Santoro]

he recorded well after the fact you got out of the car which is convenient for you as you didnt have a bag and on top of that. it was recorded after he gave the demand not to put hands down

how would you explain the exact 17k on Rob in his screenshots, which is the same amount from two large stacks? Pretty similar coincidence if you ask me. Furthermore, as Alphadef said himself, even if the command was given, which is really a matter of our word vs. yours, it doesn't really matter since you still shot us like a minute and a half after you guys left, which is plenty of time for that command to no longer be in effect.

 

[Alphadef]

Based on the evidence and debate found in this PR I have come to my conclusion.

I see three potential rule breaks in the situation.
1) Mugging near NPCs
While the handcuff break (and potentially the drug dealer, can't really see him in any of the evidence) are nearby, you are still a considerable distance away from them. As such, I will not consider this to have been broken.

2) Mugging the drop off
The thing about drop off mugging is that the drop off point itself isn't immune from mugging, the potential rule break is metagaming to know that robbers are going there in the first place. Since as the reporting party themselves admitted that they were followed to the location (and as such, the reported party was not camping the location), there is no rule break here.

3) RDM
While I don't doubt there was some sort of "keep your hands up" (tends to be a pretty common component of muggings), you guys had already been seemingly gone over a minute. The only reason to stop at the bridge and look back down was with the intent to try and "justify" an RDM.

As such, @Tony Ravioli, Treeshin, and Retro_football I find not guilty of a rule break, as like I said above, the mug itself isn't an issue (You were not particularly close to the NPC and the drop off was not camped).

However, @Kingpin as the one who pulled the trigger on both players, I do find you guilty of RDMing both players. As such, I will be issuing 1 Warning Point for these RDMs. I would also like to remind you that "during a PvP situation, such as muggings and raids etc, you may not kill surrendered parties simply for speaking a few words, unless they are actively yelling for help, trying to attract attention, insulting or threatening you (refer to rules 2.2.2 and 2.2.4)." While you didn't do this in this situation, I do see you typing in chat that the mugging victims will be killed if they speak. If you ever do end up killing a player for simply speaking, that would in fact be a rulebreak.

Player Report Partially Accepted,
Locked and Moved