Counter Raiding Cops with Home Ownership

[Karol]

Good day,

Everyone knows the feeling of getting raided by cops and how irritating it can be, right? Well, your first thought would be to go back to your house, if not there already, and shoot at the cops that are raiding your property, right? According to the rules, that's not allowed. I had gone through countless of situations where I was the owner of a home and cops had arrived with no proper reason to raid us, the staff doesn't deal with it, so I start shooting at them to get my territory back, but all I get is a ban rather than my items. Apparently, if cops are raiding your establishment, even if you are the owner, you cannot go back and kill them which seems bullshit but is a reality.

Rule 4.2 #12 states, "

1. During a police raid, only the current occupants of the base are allowed to defend the base. This is to prevent random civilians with no affiliations to shoot at the police for fun. To be clear: If you are not in the base at the start of the police raid, you can not actively intervene at all.

"
This rule basically states that the people that are inside your house are the only ones that are allowed to defend, therefore making this a rule that does not match any factor of real-life and is in favor of the cop's side. In real life, let's say there is a drug bust on El-Chapo, there's no way in hell he's not gonna retaliate with men coming from all angles, but in Monolith, that's not allowed, which I think is complete bs.

What I'm trying to propose is the fact that the police force is already strong enough with literally like 30 people in it each time there's a full server, so why make it hard for men with Makarovs to live with this bullshit of not being able to defend your base from the outside. This also ruins roleplay in which you could have neighbors that are part of the same organization that would shoot back at the cops, but yet still have ownership to the same property, but they would get in trouble for helping their friends. Overall, I think this rule should be put out of function and should be replaced with a new rule like, "Anyone that has ownership and had been living inside of the building that is getting raided by cops is allowed to counter if outside, but newcomers cannot."

My conclusion is the fact that cop-mains are favored by staff members and literally get away with anything, and I mean anything. I'm not gonna go anymore into depth cause like I feel like I keep repeating myself, but the point stands that this shit needs to be fixed.

Thank you for your time.

*EDIT* While I was growing some coca, I had come up with another good idea, if you have illegal items inside the base and are not at the base, you have the ability to come back and counter the cops without getting a punishment as you do regularly.

 

[Zenius]

-Support I do agree that being cop raided is the most annoying thing that can happen. But still you are not a drug cartel leader that has many goons. No one in their right mind would go and counter raid cops in real life. The risk is just to high for them to do it.

 

[Karol]

-Support I do agree that being cop raided is the most annoying thing that can happen. But still you are not a drug cartel leader that has many goons. No one in their right mind would go and counter raid cops in real life. The risk is just to high for them to do it.

If it's your own home, you should have the ability to go back if you were at another location without getting warned or banned by staff.

 

[Zenius]

If it's your own home, you should have the ability to go back if you were at another location without getting warned or banned by staff.

IRL no one would go back to their homes if police found illegal items, cause they would get arrested It's just common sense. But that's just my opinion.

 

[imaspy14]

Reason 1 - Cops are already fucking over powered
E.g 2 life rule. They don't lose shit when raiding. Everything they get is free. Just to name a few
Reason 2 - you could spend 100k on coke supplies and a cop sees you some how and they raid and you and one other guy are Basing but you have other friends online they should be able to help as you are losing alot shit and then people don't base/leave the server
Reason 3 - Why are we not allowed to counter cops is it because their already shot at driving and PVP well boo hoo that's their fault their shit and need more rules to help them we should be allowed to help our guys

 

[imaspy14]

-Support I do agree that being cop raided is the most annoying thing that can happen. But still you are not a drug cartel leader that has many goons. No one in their right mind would go and counter raid cops in real life. The risk is just to high for them to do it.

You know this Happens IRL where if cops raid a cartels house like a leader or so they will retaliate and kill the cops their or they do it slowly by killing your family etc

 

[Zenius]

You know this Happens IRL where if cops raid a cartels house like a leader or so they will retaliate and kill the cops their or they do it slowly by killing your family etc

You do have a point, however you aren't a drug cartel leader that has a ton of people working for you. You are in a small gang that has about 10-20 people. But I do agree with your frustration, I have been cop raided many times where I and my friends could have survived if people afiliated with you could have helped out.

 

[Alex Anderson]

Reason 1 - Cops are already fucking over powered
E.g 2 life rule. They don't lose shit when raiding. Everything they get is free. Just to name a few
Reason 2 - you could spend 100k on coke supplies and a cop sees you some how and they raid and you and one other guy are Basing but you have other friends online they should be able to help as you are losing alot shit and then people don't base/leave the server
Reason 3 - Why are we not allowed to counter cops is it because their already shot at driving and PVP well boo hoo that's their fault their shit and need more rules to help them we should be allowed to help our guys

I'm gonna address some things here. "Reason 1 - Cops are already fucking over powered" ? How, because they get 2 lives? This is underpowered compared to IRL cops, plus most of the rules on the server go against the cops in terms of which it favors, cops can't just shoot a dead body dead to confirm a kill in order to make sure they don't get revived to continue fighting. Criminals can.

"Reason 2 - you could spend 100k on coke supplies and a cop sees you some how and they raid and you and one other guy are Basing but you have other friends online they should be able to help as you are losing alot shit and then people don't base/leave the server" Simple as this: Criminal is high risk high reward, cop is low risk low reward, plus unless you're on radio with them you'd have to imsg them anyway (Assuming in this hypothetical situation there are no rulebreakers) which most people would never do because you'd freeze and give cops the biggest advantage they have. Plus once you're at coke you're basically set for money.

"Reason 3 - Why are we not allowed to counter cops is it because their already shot at driving and PVP well boo hoo that's their fault their shit and need more rules to help them we should be allowed to help our guys" I don't know if this is true for all cops but I'm pretty sure most of them only appear to be bad at PVP, if you consistently drop below 24 FPS in gunfights and even crash alot like me, you'd be bad too.

Enough about rebuttels time for my personal opinion on the suggestion itself.
-Support This is because with this you'd have so many people countering there'd be more criminals than cops, all of them would have better guns, better medkits, better armor (because cop can't get Helmet) and have the benefit of not being complete strangers, it's always easier defending + knowing the people you're working with.

 

[ProximaSync]

Reason 1 - Cops are already fucking over powered
E.g 2 life rule. They don't lose shit when raiding. Everything they get is free. Just to name a few
Reason 2 - you could spend 100k on coke supplies and a cop sees you some how and they raid and you and one other guy are Basing but you have other friends online they should be able to help as you are losing alot shit and then people don't base/leave the server
Reason 3 - Why are we not allowed to counter cops is it because their already shot at driving and PVP well boo hoo that's their fault their shit and need more rules to help them we should be allowed to help our guys

1. When have you ever seen cops (irl) have a 1:1 ratio to criminals?

It ain’t free, it’s from taxes where majority is paid by police job tax.

2. You lost your shit because you can’t hide it. IRL criminals would rather not get caught than stay for frags. This ain’t a movie.

3. You just generalized a job which all players have access to. Just because people rp differently doesn’t mean you have to disrespect them.

Rules are in place to keep pvp balanced.

Defending will always have advantage, so why make them have an even more advantage.

 

[Tyro]

The major reason that this rule is in place, is that random people who aren’t apart of the base would start countering. A easy solution to this, is to only allow org members of the defenders party to counter, and nobody else. You can’t pull the realistic card here, because you have already said before this isn’t real life. There’s ALOT of very unrealistic features that are backed for the sake of gameplay. I believe this is something that needs to be removed. If criminals have the ABILITY to do something, they should be able to do it. That’s more realistic than what would “happen irl”

this is the same thing as the fear rp rule. Yes it’s unrealistic to fight back with someone pointing a gun at you, but you should have the choice to make that decision. Hence the rule was changed. Majority of cop weapons specialize at long ranges, so they will still have an upper hand.
+Support

 

[uwu]

-support. When I play cops, and we conduct a raid on evolane 1, I shit you not there are like 16 people with acrs and like 400 meds each. The cops cant deal with that stuff.

 

[imaspy14]

-support. When I play cops, and we conduct a raid on evolane 1, I shit you not there are like 16 people with acrs and like 400 meds each. The cops cant deal with that stuff.

Because u all rush in and die you guys need to learn how to push with swat Shields and also how to play the waiting game at some points as well

 

[uwu]

Because u all rush in and die you guys need to learn how to push with swat Shields and also how to play the waiting game at some points as well

Not really. We wait outside, they just sit there.

 

[Tyro]

Not really. We wait outside, they just sit there.

Because u all rush in and die you guys need to learn how to push with swat Shields and also how to play the waiting game at some points as well

This is to voice your opinion, not to senselessly argue back and forth.

 

[Karol]

-support. When I play cops, and we conduct a raid on evolane 1, I shit you not there are like 16 people with acrs and like 400 meds each. The cops cant deal with that stuff.

I'm talking from the perspective of a trio. There's three of us with Makarovs not 16 with ACRs.

 

[BoKe]

@ProximaSync I see where your coming from but I don’t agree with what your saying when getting raided by cops they have overwhelming numbers and guns also cops have 2 lives which even give them a huge advantage it just unfair for us “civ” cause if everyone goes to get drug supply and one person stays and gets raided they are gonna get destroyed. I will also like to point out that you
Said “Rule are in place to keep pvp balanced”, well I think they are not balanced when it comes to cops or in general pvp will never be balanced and that’s a fact but it would help if they fix this rules, and Proxima you main cop so I can see a bias opinion coming from you but I can see both sides cause I’m level 167 cop and main cop until
I started to play civ and see the other side but this is just my own opinion. EDIT: I would like to say that I’m fine with cops having numbers and guns cause they are suppose to control the city and keep it under control but when it comes to raiding “civ” can lose a lot of money cops lose nothing we should be able to counter. +Support on fixing the rule

 

[Stuvi]

This has been discussed several times already and will not be changed. It is fine as it currently is.

 

[Buddyro22]

+support on ORG MEMBERS ALLOWED ONLY to come help defend the base when they are not there in the current raid. HOW much more RP can this be , it literally makes no sense for only the occupants already inside the base to be only associated with the raid. Instead slap the random civilians who will help , change the rule to ORG MEMBERS ONLY ALLOWED TO COUNTER so staff just have to look at the players countering and they’ll be in the ORG . I also will be in favor of not letting ALLIED ORGS to join the said base defense to lessen the confusion of staff unless they were already inside the base. Also the rule where it says once you leave the raiding property ur out of the raid entirely also needs to be changed , RP wise people are able to FLANK. Again in these situations I would feel like ORg members should only be associated.



EX OF FLANK : Indus warehouse w/ the conveyor belt has 2 entry ways and can be crossed from the middle . I just run all the way around to goto my boy to help him out bc they have prop adv , but with the rule it literally restricts you from having you to GO DOWN THE MIDDLE when in RP it makes more sense to go around and flank the cops distracted by ur boy. again org associated only

 

[Thy]

The rule is in place to keep a certain balance. And by balance I don't mean for each party to be equally matched. The criminals represent a gang or criminal organisation in a major US city of maybe 20-50 people maximum. The police represent the entire city's force of law enforcement, potentially numbering in the thousands, depending on the size of the city.
Cops and criminals aren't ment to be equally matched in a straight up full on battle. The police are meant to be a significant threat to be escaped when found, or avoided altogether if possible.

Now, my biggest issue with this debate every time it gets brought up is this.
The two life rule and free equipment is always mentioned as the biggest strength of police.
The advantage you get from defending chokepoints, generally better equipment and cooperation is mentioned as the strengths of criminals.

But for some reason the biggest strength for criminals and the biggest weakness for cops is never brought up.
As a criminal fighting cops, you know who the enemy is. He is easily visible, easy to pick out, and most importantly he often can not shoot first!
The cops on the other hand, have no idea who is a criminal or a random civ running by or just watching.
If the rule we're discussing was removed, the cops would be shot in the back 9 times out of 10 without having the slightest chance to defend themselves, simply because they have no way of ascertaining who the enemy is.

Now you may mention "set up a perimeter, keep it clear and it wont be an issue".
From personal experience, every time I've set up a perimeter as a cop, within the first five minutes some random dude in a big ass truck comes ramming through it with 100 mph. And that is with the rule in place.

This is not to mention the general un-organized state of the police at most times, the unwillingness of many players to RP and stay out of a perimeter instead of minging inside it, the number of new inexperienced players as cops and so on.

All of these things put together would, with the removal of the rule, handicap the police immensely, almost remove them as a threat in raids, and scare people away from playing it since you would be shot from behind by people you can't take action against until they've already killed you.
And police can't cuff people near a raid or crime scene as a pre-emptive method of survival, since most of you know from personal experience how many reports and how much complaining you do if you are cuffed for "no raisins".



TLDR: without said rule cops would be a joke in raids and not stand a chance.

 

[Jamal Hisin]

I am going to say this once again: THERE NEEDS TO BE A WHITELIST FOR COPS. I understand that this may not be the right place to adress this but the cop minging/rule breaking is getting out of hand. The amount of times I've been forced out of my vehicle and searched for running a red light is incredible. And don't get me started on the FALSE RAIDS. The cops have invaded my home while I've been making illegal items because "there was a call in the area reporting suspiscous activity". There needs to be stricter rules on rulebreaks regarding cops at the least, and I hope there is a whitelist.