Poor Decision Based On My Experience

[Jaffar Mahmud]

Your Steam Name: Jaffa
Your Steam ID: https:/steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198029967066
Your Character Name (If Applicable): Jaffar Mahmud

Admin being reported @Clutch Master FTW

Reason for Report: So I was dragged into a sit by Cluth with the reason of a player reporting me for rdming him. The rundown of the story same which I told in the sit (I was going through an ally way when I saw a guy farming coca. I pulled my gun on him and was ready for the mug. I came up told him in voice chat "Hands up". He looks back at and says "Give me one second" (1. Not complying with orders given by the guy with a gun) He then proceeds to turn around back towards his plants and do nothing for about 2-4 seconds. At this time I didnt know if he was armed or not. He couldve equipped/pull out a pistol. Anyways there was no video neither from me or the guy I killed. But based on what i explained to Mr @Clutch Master FTW I followed rules perfectly well. He then asked 2 other Moderators for their opionon and they agreed with him. I then asked one of them for the reasoning of their ruling which he replied with "By what @Clutch Master FTW told me the guy I was mugging was trying to cooperate." Now based on this story I just wrote and said basically word to word in the sit it clearly shows He was cooperating. @Clutch Master FTW mentions I didnt give him enough time. Which I told him that IDK exactly how much time i gave. But it was enough for the player to turn around speak with me then turn back around and wait another like 2-4 seconds. They then made their choice of the situation having to be voided which I strongly disagree with even though I try honoring staff members decisions as much as I can even if it isnt in my favor. Sit ended with the mug being voided and me having to give the items back which I took of the person.)
Time of Occurrence: Around 11:00 GMT+1
Evidence to support your claim: @Clutch Master FTW I hope he will be honest

Additional members involved/witnessing:
Read, understood and followed staff report rules?: For sure have.

 

[Clutch Master FTW]

Hello @Jaffar Mahmud ,

This specific situation was voided due to the fact that you did not give enough time to the player you were mugging before you killed him.

Rule 2.2.15 states:

You are required to give the opposing party a reasonable time-period to respond and act upon your commands in situations where the rules allow various outcomes based on how the opposing party reacts.

Giving 2-4 seconds in a mugging is definitely not enough time to consider murdering someone who has somewhat complied up to the point of death (which is described by you as ~4 seconds, and the opposing party responding with "Give me a second"). Not putting your hands up when you are repeating "hands up!" for ~10 seconds could somewhat justify killing the person you were mugging, but 2-4 seconds is just not enough for someone to react. Another scenario could be if he ran away, called his friends, told you no, etc. then it would of been justified. You didn't like the outcome of having the situation voided, so I contacted 2 other moderators on their opinions, they told me it didn't seem like the other party was resisting in any way. If it was more like 10-20 seconds of not putting their hands up, then that is more understandable.

 

[Jaffar Mahmud]

Hello @Jaffar Mahmud ,

This specific situation was voided due to the fact that you did not give enough time to the player you were mugging before you killed him.

Rule 2.2.15 states:


Giving 2-4 seconds in a mugging is definitely not enough time to consider murdering someone who has somewhat complied up to the point of death (which is described by you as ~4 seconds, and the opposing party responding with "Give me a second"). Not putting your hands up when you are repeating "hands up!" for ~10 seconds could somewhat justify killing the person you were mugging, but 2-4 seconds is just not enough for someone to react. Another scenario could be if he ran away, called his friends, told you no, etc. then it would of been justified. You didn't like the outcome of having the situation voided, so I contacted 2 other moderators on their opinions, they told me it didn't seem like the other party was resisting in any way. If it was more like 10-20 seconds of not putting their hands up, then that is more understandable.

Not following orders is also a reason to shoot someone. But that isnt why I shot him. I explained in the part of him turning around. This whole thing would be so simple but since the past 2 years u need 2 guns for fear RP. That guy rulefully couldve pulled a gun when he turned around. And even if that isnt "RP" i still play knowing im solo and counting on the fact that I cannot initiate fear RP. Plus ima point out that I said 2-4 seconds based on IDK. Neither of us have video and I obviously wasnt counting in my head how much time I gave him. But as I said it was plenty for him to respond to me and decide to do something else then follow an order. Even if he was in +attack that doesnt matter at all when it comes down to an RP situation because it has nothing to do with it.

 

[Clutch Master FTW]

Not following orders is also a reason to shoot someone. But that isnt why I shot him. I explained in the part of him turning around. This whole thing would be so simple but since the past 2 years u need 2 guns for fear RP. That guy rulefully couldve pulled a gun when he turned around. And even if that isnt "RP" i still play knowing im solo and counting on the fact that I cannot initiate fear RP. Plus ima point out that I said 2-4 seconds based on IDK. Neither of us have video and I obviously wasnt counting in my head how much time I gave him. But as I said it was plenty for him to respond to me and decide to do something else then follow an order. Even if he was in +attack that doesnt matter at all when it comes down to an RP situation because it has nothing to do with it.

Im not going to argue that this is poor judgement based off of your situation. You broke a rule, and that’s why I decided to void it. Yes, it is unfortunate that you weren’t able to put them under full fearRP, but that’s not his fault for you not having someone to mug with. His life shouldn’t have been ended so quickly based off of the fact you couldn’t put him under fearRP.

 

[Jaffar Mahmud]

Im not going to argue that this is poor judgement based off of your situation. You broke a rule, and that’s why I decided to void it. Yes, it is unfortunate that you weren’t able to put them under full fearRP, but that’s not his fault for you not having someone to mug with. His life shouldn’t have been ended so quickly based off of the fact you couldn’t put him under fearRP.

You arnt going to argue with me about a "rule break" But we dont know if it was because there is no damn evidence. I said an estimate time but I clearly clarified this with you and the guy I was mugging also said an estimated time it took till I shot him. It isnt my fault someone doesnt obey orders in a mug situtation and gets what he deservers

 

[Jaffar Mahmud]

You arnt going to argue with me about a "rule break" But we dont know if it was because there is no damn evidence. I said an estimate time but I clearly clarified this with you and the guy I was mugging also said an estimated time it took till I shot him. It isnt my fault someone doesnt obey orders in a mug situtation and gets what he deservers

But I also want to add that judging that whole sit situation with a Video and exact timing is literally impossible because we will never get true timings and whatever. And from there it is your fault for deciding a sit without pure evidence of what actually happend

 

[Thanewolfe]

Under review.

 

[Thanewolfe]

Hello @Jaffar Mahmud,

Thank you for your report.

For reference:

1. You are required to give the opposing party a reasonable time-period to respond and act upon your commands in situations where the rules allow various outcomes based on how the opposing party reacts. You need to make sure the opposing party hears you. Keep the voice-chat delay in mind.
2. During a PvP situation, such as muggings and raids etc., you may not kill surrendered parties simply for speaking a few words, unless they are actively yelling for help, trying to attract attention, insulting or threatening you (refer to rules 2.2.2 and 2.2.4).
3. Attacking to kill should be carried out sensibly and not as a first resort, unless you have a good reason for immediate lethal action.

From this we can determine that the actions of @Clutch Master FTW are justified, from your statements as well as the statements from Clutch, it can be determined that a "reasonable time-period" was not given to respond to your demands. Unless you were given a "good reason" for lethal action, you can wait for the situation to unfold properly before resorting to killing someone. Additionally, he went out of his way to get a second and third opinion on this matter, which ultimately ended up reaffirming his decision. Addressing your primary concern of "Not following orders", this is not an explicit reason to shoot someone (see Reference 2) as he was not under FearRP.

Staff report denied.