WPA

[misterjokeman]

Your Steam Name: misterjokeman
Your SteamID: STEAM_0:1:51800342
Your Character Name: Wolf Thornton

Which Staff issued the Warning Point: @HockeyExpert30

Reason for the warning point(s): "RDM and FTVL"???
Why should the point(s) be removed: That was not RDM, if your car gets stolen then that gives you valid reason to kill the driver of yours or your friends stolen vehicle. "Killing should be carried out sensibly," is not a statement that overrides this fact. This warning point led to a ban and it's just annoying that I have to make this appeal in the first place. I think that the FTVL was just thrown in there for zero reason, however, the RDM point was not valid whatsoever as I did in fact have a good reason to kill him as he had stolen my friends car, it is irrelevant that he had his hands up I still had valid reason to kill him. If you would like to consult with other admins regarding this situation that would be amazing, because if this were the case, everyone would be stealing everyone elses cars and when they get caught just put their hands up because "If you kill me that's RDM and FTVL," apparently.

Time of Occurrence: N/A
Additional members involved/witnessing: N/A
Read, understood and followed warning point appeal rules?: Yes

 

[itz_coffee]

Under review @HockeyExpert30

 

[HockeyExpert30]

So during the sit you and the reporting party both agreed the car was stationary and engine was off. The reporting party then hopped in the driver seat and was told to hop out by someone else who was apparently stealing the car and he did so and put his hands up. You argued that you still had kos because you considered the car stolen the minute he hopped in the driver seat even though he was not in the car during the time you killed him. I explained that because the car was stationary it wasnt technically stolen and that the reporting party was killed with his hands up outside of the car making him not a threat. I also explained that you need to carry out killing sensibly and not as a first resort which I believe wasnt done in this case. I issued misterjokeman 1 warning point for RDM. If @gm1003 ツ has anymore questions id gladly answer

 

[misterjokeman]

I never agreed that the engine was off, HE was the one that exclaimed that the engine was off. The engine very well could have been on. I argued that I had KOS because the car was very much stolen. Regardless of which you're explaining that I can't kill him just because he hops out of the stolen car and puts his hands up??? What???? I probably should have said so In the sit but from my point of view I didn't see that the car was stationary and when he hopped in the car that's when I saw it start moving. I know that he records so I would love to see video regarding which if available as you warning point banned me off a he said/ she said situation anyways. It does not matter what you deem as "sensibly" because the rules clearly states that I am within my rights to kill him if he stole my friends car which was indeed the case. The "Killing" was very well carried out within the rules as I had a "valid in character reason" to do so.

 

[misterjokeman]

So during the sit you and the reporting party both agreed the car was stationary and engine was off

If I didn't make it clear this is false.

 

[itz_coffee]

I know that he records so I would love to see video regarding which if available as you warning point banned me off a he said/ she said situation anyways.

Who was the person who reported you? A video would really help

And from what I understand from reading both posts is that the warning point was given because you killed someone who tried to steal you or your friends car but there's an argument over if he tried to escape with the car

If someone puts their hands up, you cannot really kill them unless they are actively resisting or threatening to (like making a 911 call or yelling for help)

 

[misterjokeman]

It was JColborn but the warning point ban is almost over anyways now. He did have a friend lockpick the car and got in with the intent to steal it before my friend forced him out at gunpoint. I've seen situations in the past deemed valid where they were killed in that exact same scenario. This is the first time I've encountered this "problem" where if someone puts their hands up even if they have done something KOS worthy that it is RDM if you kill them.

If someone puts their hands up, you cannot really kill them unless they are actively resisting or threatening to (like making a 911 call or yelling for help)

This rule applies in context of a raid or a mugging where the victim has done nothing to you previously and you are purely "initiating" on them. Not when they have done something to you which gives you valid reason to kill them and now you can't cuz "hurr durr I put my hands up if you kill me its rdm." You can close this appeal because the warning point ban is almost over anyways but it's really annoying that I had to go through this process.

 

[itz_coffee]

After further review, it is clear that someone stealing your property (or your friend's) is a valid reason to kill. Additionally, surrendered parties can be killed even if they comply if the attacker has a valid in-character reason to kill them.

You are unbanned, and you can ask a senior administrator or higher in-game to remove the warning point.

Accepted.