Ban appeal

[Bob King]

Your Steam Name: ʙOʙ
Your Steam ID: STEAM_0:0:156010674
Your Character Name: Bob King

Ban Length: 4 Days
Banning Staff Member (@AdminName to mention the staff member): @ArcticSalad

Ban Reason: "Mass RDM"
Time of Occurrence: Just now
Relevant Evidence: N/A
Additional members involved/witnessing: @Horrendous Gaming / @kyubi1098

To start off the backstory me and my friends were talking about doing a bank heist so we decided to do it by driving to the NPC which sells all equipment (Drills / Bags), we then buy all the equipment for this said bank raid (Drills / Bags) and proceed to head to the bank. We first enter the bank and it seems that my friend had set off the Metal Detectors in which @DangerZone640 thinks it would be a good idea to aim a shotgun at everyone in the bank saying "who set it off" which ofcourse puts him under as Initiation which also the two cops which were in the bank had pointed tasers at me and my said friends (which ofcourse all of this goes under the rule 4.1.3 / 6). The argument made was that he was no direct threat during the incident when we had started but the Initiation rule still applied as to why would i bring my gun out when his gun is ofcourse off safety, so yes i had then waited 5 minutes for the perfect opportunity to attack. I'm confused to why their argument towards this was because i had waited 5 minutes to start my attack and that the the staff member taking that sit would take the Security Chiefs side as he had aparnt recording of when he did started the Initiation by aiming a shotgun at me and my friends. The staff member also took the rule that our lives were not in danger as his gun was off his back, he shouldn't have aimed at us in the first place and definitely meanwhile we're about to start a fucking bank robbery with intent to kill. Which even fucking then we had initiated a bank robbery which gives us all the provel to shoot anyone which is a either part of the PD or security guards which have guns equipped.

In conclusion the reason why i was banned was because the Security guards or Police Officers were no threat towards me. Which is ofcourse false as we had Initiated a Bank Robbery and they had pointed direct weapons which is threatening our lives or potentially a threat to us losing our weapons which ofcourse goes under the initiation rule.

 

[DangerZone640]

This video literally kills your whole entire appeal:

You know what you did, and @ArcticSalad told you too. You are responsible for your own actions. There was a solid 3 Minutes and 30 seconds before the bank raid started when I had my gun out. In the sit, you said I had it pointed into everyone's face, however, here, I am telling everyone to just put it away. You also stated that your life was in danger, which is false as, well, I am a security chief so there really wouldn't need to be a "fear" however if you had pulled a gun at the time of my gun being out it would've made sense but not a couple minutes after when the situation was dealt with. Besides, you weren't even what I was focused on at the time of my death.

In addition: Why do people think that when the staff member bans you for a rule break they are "taking sides"? They are just banning you for what I had reported you for. So if he had just let you off that would mean he is "taking your side"? And if he was, then would you report it? No? Okay then, people need to stop bringing this up unless they can back it up.

In addition to the addition: If your "Reason for killing" was justified, you still killed 2 people who were cuffed and posed no threat, and then killed a cadet who posed no threat. You have been on this server for a long time, you should know this by now. The other guy in the sit was reporting you for the exact same reason, he was cuffed and you killed him. Either way, you killed multiple people.
There is no way you are going to justify killing 3 unarmed people excluding myself. 3 or more people is considered MRDM, so the time would still be the same.

IN ADDITION to the addition in addition: The rule that you state (4.1.3 - 6.) was being "followed" reads as follows:

1. Law enforcement may only be harmed if they are a direct threat to you. Passing by officers, such as those obeying NLR, may not be harmed unless they start to initiate on you.

I was in no way a Direct Threat to you at the time of the killing. You are contradicting yourself in your own appeal.

 

[Bob King]

This video literally kills your whole entire appeal:

You know what you did, and @ArcticSalad told you too. You are responsible for your own actions. There was a solid 3 Minutes and 30 seconds before the bank raid started when I had my gun out. In the sit, you said I had it pointed into everyone's face, however, here, I am telling everyone to just put it away. You also stated that your life was in danger, which is false as, well, I am a security chief so there really wouldn't need to be a "fear" however if you had pulled a gun at the time of my gun being out it would've made sense but not a couple minutes after when the situation was dealt with. Besides, you weren't even what I was focused on at the time of my death.

In addition: Why do people think that when the staff member bans you for a rule break they are "taking sides"? They are just banning you for what I had reported you for.

You being a "Security Chief" doesnt change the fact you aimed a shotgun at me and all my friends straight before we're about to start a bank raid and all my points in the appeal seem extremely valid to why even tho that you had your gun on your back i'm still able and have the right to kill you. Note that as soon as the video ends that is when i had killed you and yes i had waited 3 minutes so i could start the perfect attack which im pretty sure initiation lasts way longer than just 3 minutes. Also note we're literally initiating a bank raid which gives us authority to shoot to kill unless a none threat or civilian.

 

[Bob King]

I have no idea what you have against me @DangerZone640 and the title of the video "banapeal Denied" you act is as you have any authority over staffs judgement.

 

[DangerZone640]

"

You being a "Security Chief" doesnt change the fact you aimed a shotgun at me and all my friends straight before we're about to start a bank raid and all my points in the appeal seem extremely valid to why even tho that you had your gun on your back i'm still able and have the right to kill you. Note that as soon as the video ends that is when i had killed you and yes i had waited 3 minutes so i could start the perfect attack which im pretty sure initiation lasts way longer than just 3 minutes. Also note we're literally initiating a bank raid which gives us authority to shoot to kill unless a none threat or civilian.

Lack of grammar aside. You, yet again, are contradicting yourself. Quote: "Also note we're literally initiating a bank raid which gives us authority to shoot to kill unless a none threat or civilian". I was "not a threat" as at the time I didn't have a weapon. So, assuming my killing was "valid" you are telling me the other 3 players were a "direct threat"? Also, being "pretty sure" means that you aren't even sure that what you did was justified. In the rules, it says "Direct Threat", at the time, I was not a direct threat. This, of course, is the rule that you yourself pointed out.
Also, it wasn't "straight before we started the bank raid", it was a solid couple minutes before, this, of course, is something you yourself pointed out literally in the exact same statement.

I have no idea what you have against me @DangerZone640 and the title of the video "banapeal Denied" you act is as you have any authority over staffs judgement.

I don't, its a video title, it has literally no meaning. It was a funny thing toward the "Bananapeal" that Hawke made a couple months back. You can also edit your post, no need to make a new reply for it.

 

[Bob King]

You turned yourself into a threat by initiating on us as soon as we walked in the bank, yes you might have not had the gun out at the time of attack but that's when i thought it was necessary to eliminate you and the two officers as you guys initiated on us first and we have no intent on keeping hostages during the bank raid and will not take any risks as in the passed we've been fucked over. You guys initiated first which makes you a threat.

You can also edit your post, no need to make a new reply for it.

And no offense to you but i'd prefer hearing this by staff member

 

[DangerZone640]

You turned yourself into a threat by initiating on us as soon as we walked in the bank, yes you might have not had the gun out at the time of attack but that's when i thought it was necessary to eliminate you and the two officers as you guys initiated on us first and we have no intent on keeping hostages during the bank raid and will not take any risks as in the passed we've been fucked over. You guys initiated first which makes you a threat.

So, you are saying every cop that has a gun out near a player can be insta-killed on the spot even after they put the gun away just because he "initiated" on you a couple minutes earlier? I have no clue what server you have been playing on recently but for the past 9ish months i've been here the server has never been like this. The Cadet (to my knowledge) was not a direct threat to you, while you can make the agument about me, he literally couldn't have done anything. You can go back and look at player reports for people that have done what you did and they got banned for it.

And no offense to you but i'd prefer hearing this by staff member

That is perfectly acceptable, not really an issue.
------------------------
If you need to know what direct is, here you go.
https://www.google.com/search?q=def...i60j69i57j0.1559j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
You can look at synonyms and see that they mostly have to deal with immediate, which is one of them, action. Not a couple minutes later.

Lets not continue this conversation, wait for @ArcticSalad to make his verdict. I do not want to beat a dead horse as this isn't leading anywhere. Don't make another reply and neither will I. Give him time to make his decision and he will ask us if he needs something from us. I do not want either of us to get into trouble over a small conflict on the forums. Just heed to this, I am not forcing you to do it.

 

[ArcticSalad]

Hi @Bob King,
It's late at night for me currently and I will need some time to analyze the arguments and evidence provided. I will get back to you with a response first thing in the morning.

Thank you for your patience,
ArcticSalad

 

[Nick Brown]

Bob i watched you massrdm everyone in that bank.

 

[ArcticSalad]

Hey @Bob King,
I hope you have had a great day and that we can clear up what exactly occurred leading up to your ban. The reason I issued a ban on you for mass RDM was because you chose to pull out an automatic rifle in the bank and fire into a crowd of 4 people that were in no way an active threat to you, killing them all.

You explained to me that your reason for killing the security chief was because "he initiated on you". I determined that this was not the case. You and multiple friends ran through the doors of the bank, setting off the metal detectors and some of you were even wearing masks. The security chief had the full right to be suspicious of your activity and decided to investigate. Although I do agree that waving the shotgun around was excessive, he did not "initiate" on or threaten any person in particular with it - he was simply waving it around. Despite these circumstances, he ultimately decided not to pursue you or any member of your crew for it.

Regardless of if you had a valid reason to kill the security chief, you chose to fire into a crowd of 4 people and kill everybody - not just the security chief. This was unnecessary.

i had then waited 5 minutes for the perfect opportunity to attack.

The perfect opportunity to attack the security chief was while he was standing in a crowd with 3 other people (involved in a roleplay situation) with witnesses around?

All kills during a raid or robbery must be carried out sensibly. You killed two civilians, both of which were in handcuffs and were in no way an active threat to you. You killed a police cadet that had his back turned to you and was investigating the trespassing situation with the two civilians. Lastly, you killed the security chief for initiating on you in which I explained to you was not the case.

Which even fucking then we had initiated a bank robbery which gives us all the provel to shoot anyone which is a either part of the PD or security guards which have guns equipped.

Nobody had a weapon out except you when you decided to kill them nor were they in any way involved with you or your crew at the time. The police cadet and security chief were in no way a direct threat to you.

You fired into this crowd consisting of these 4 individuals and killed them. Just because you chose to start a bank robbery does not give you the right to start off by killing everyone you see on the property. There are many better (and much more roleplay-encouraging) approaches to a bank robbery. As a result of these actions, I deemed it necessary to issue a ban. I'm giving you the opportunity to submit a final response and from there I will make my decision regarding your appeal. Thanks again for your patience and have an excellent day.

Best regards,
ArcticSalad

 

[ArcticSalad]

If there is nothing else, this will be denied in 24 hours.

Thanks,
ArcticSalad

 

[Bob King]

Hey @Bob King,
I hope you have had a great day and that we can clear up what exactly occurred leading up to your ban. The reason I issued a ban on you for mass RDM was because you chose to pull out an automatic rifle in the bank and fire into a crowd of 4 people that were in no way an active threat to you, killing them all.

You explained to me that your reason for killing the security chief was because "he initiated on you". I determined that this was not the case. You and multiple friends ran through the doors of the bank, setting off the metal detectors and some of you were even wearing masks. The security chief had the full right to be suspicious of your activity and decided to investigate. Although I do agree that waving the shotgun around was excessive, he did not "initiate" on or threaten any person in particular with it - he was simply waving it around. Despite these circumstances, he ultimately decided not to pursue you or any member of your crew for it.

Regardless of if you had a valid reason to kill the security chief, you chose to fire into a crowd of 4 people and kill everybody - not just the security chief. This was unnecessary.

The perfect opportunity to attack the security chief was while he was standing in a crowd with 3 other people (involved in a roleplay situation) with witnesses around?

All kills during a raid or robbery must be carried out sensibly. You killed two civilians, both of which were in handcuffs and were in no way an active threat to you. You killed a police cadet that had his back turned to you and was investigating the trespassing situation with the two civilians. Lastly, you killed the security chief for initiating on you in which I explained to you was not the case.

Nobody had a weapon out except you when you decided to kill them nor were they in any way involved with you or your crew at the time. The police cadet and security chief were in no way a direct threat to you.

You fired into this crowd consisting of these 4 individuals and killed them. Just because you chose to start a bank robbery does not give you the right to start off by killing everyone you see on the property. There are many better (and much more roleplay-encouraging) approaches to a bank robbery. As a result of these actions, I deemed it necessary to issue a ban. I'm giving you the opportunity to submit a final response and from there I will make my decision regarding your appeal. Thanks again for your patience and have an excellent day.

Best regards,
ArcticSalad

From my point of view i had only killed 1 civilian, 2 police officers and the secuirty chief, the civilian that i had killed was a mistake as i was focusing on the security chief and police which unfortunately the civilian got in the way of my bullets. I understand this is in no means acceptable but i hope that you understand that i have no intent on Mass RDM'ing anyone as why would i? I really enjoy the server so much infact i've been in this community for almost a year and a half. I guess i got mixed up with the initiation rule as in previous staff sits I've been told someone aiming a gun at you means that your life may be in danger. I understand that killing all 4 of them wasn't the best way i could have handled it but from where i stand i had no time to think only to react and my first thought was that to just get rid of them as we had no intent on taking hostages or liabilities during the raid (It was too only get the money and leave). You may denied this as i do understand fully what i had did and where i got mixed up.

 

[DangerZone640]

From my point of view i had only killed 1 civilian, 2 police officers and the secuirty chief, the civilian that i had killed was a mistake as i was focusing on the security chief and police which unfortunately the civilian got in the way of my bullets. I understand this is in no means acceptable but i hope that you understand that i have no intent on Mass RDM'ing anyone as why would i? I really enjoy the server so much infact i've been in this community for almost a year and a half. I guess i got mixed up with the initiation rule as in previous staff sits I've been told someone aiming a gun at you means that your life may be in danger. I understand that killing all 4 of them wasn't the best way i could have handled it but from where i stand i had no time to think only to react and my first thought was that to just get rid of them as we had no intent on taking hostages or liabilities during the raid (It was too only get the money and leave). You may denied this as i do understand fully what i had did and where i got mixed up.

His decision is up to him however I wanted to add that you dont have to take everyone hostage, you can force them at gun point out of the building. And kill them if they had resisted. There is a reason why that rule exists, it is so people can RP it out without having to murder a lot of people. Good luck with your appeal.

 

[Bob King]

His decision is up to him however I wanted to add that you dont have to take everyone hostage, you can force them at gun point out of the building. And kill them if they had resisted. There is a reason why that rule exists, it is so people can RP it out without having to murder a lot of people. Good luck with your appeal.

I understand that we could have taken that route but from what i said we just wanted to get the money and leave letting you out would just make you all liability as the police officers could have called it into the radio for backup and you ofcourse have a shotgun and would most likely just run back in and shoot, maybe even kill one of our members doing the raid. Like i said i might have got mixed up with the initiation rule and could have handled that situation a little better but if this was a real life situation a bank robber would do the same. This is my last response and i'm fine with taking this punishment it was just at the time i was a little upset. Have a good day.

 

[ArcticSalad]

Hi there,
I'm convinced that you had the right intentions, but there is no doubt that you had the wrong approach and that choice caused harm to the roleplay experience of the many individuals involved. I think using the remaining time of your ban to further reflect on your actions and come up with a better approach to future situations would do good for you. That being said, I have decided to deny your appeal. I look forward to roleplaying with you in the future and have a great evening!

Appeal denied.

Sincerely,
ArcticSalad