bit rude tbh

[Valentino]

Your Steam Name: Valentino
Your Steam ID: STEAM_0:0:154405130
Your Character Name (If Applicable): Valentino Meid

Admin being reported: @hop1003

Reason for Report: So I pulled them over in response to a pretty vague 911 call about a white Volkswagen (no actual crime was mentioned) and I just wanted to check what was going on. I pulled them over and they complied, I ask on radio if they know anything about the Volkswagen but before I can listen to the answer I see, presumably @hop1003, getting out of the vehicle with a mac11. I put my hands up as I only have a pistol and there were a lot of people in the car but nonetheless, I get shot in the face after it was pretty damn clear I wasn't gonna do anything.
Time of Occurrence: around 1 AM CEST
Evidence to support your claim:

(Skip to around 1:10)

Additional members involved/witnessing: Queeny Bee
Read, understood and followed staff report rules?: Yes

 

[hop1003]

Hello,

@hushpuppy555 was the one with the Mac-11 in the car. We had just mugged someone at Casino and were leaving the scene. This is when we saw the black raptor which was near the mugging. This made us think he was here to KOS us. We approached and were going to confront them. It turned out they didn't and were just leaving us alone. You then pulled us over after a mugging and didn't approach us right away and kept talking into your radio which made us think you knew about the crimes we had committed. We were also equipped since the mugging.

In short, I killed you due to your suspicious actions with standing away from me and talking on your radio along with me being most likely visibly equipped from a mugging that had just done.

 

[Valentino]

Hello,

@hushpuppy555 was the one with the Mac-11 in the car. We had just mugged someone at Casino and were leaving the scene. This is when we saw the black raptor which was near the mugging. This made us think he was here to KOS us. We approached and were going to confront them. It turned out they didn't and were just leaving us alone. You then pulled us over after a mugging and didn't approach us right away and kept talking into your radio which made us think you knew about the crimes we had committed. We were also equipped since the mugging.

In short, I killed you due to your suspicious actions with standing away from me and talking on your radio along with me being most likely visibly equipped from a mugging that had just done.

I can see where you're coming from but at the point where I put my hands up I don't see why you would still kill me? You could have just gotten back in the car and driven away or whatever and with the rules: "Attacking to kill should be carried out sensibly and not as a first resort, unless you have a good reason for immediate lethal action." and "You may not kill a Law Enforcement Officer unless you have a valid roleplay reason to do so. These could include, but is not limited to, visibly carrying illegal weapons or visibly performing an illegal activity. These reasons depend on the context. If police are attempting to initiate an arrest on you while you are carrying hidden illegal items in your inventory, that is a valid reason to kill them"

I wasn't in any way "attempting to initiate an arrest on you" WITH MY HANDS UP. I simply don't see why you should have killed me, I was in no way a threat to you with my hands up, you assumed I knew about the mugging for the sole reason because I was talking on my radio and while you just wanted to "confront" the ford raptor (which you also wrongly assumed wanting to KOS y'all because he was near you guys?) you still instantly resorted to shooting me because I pulled you over and talked on my radio even after I put my hands up.

To me, this just seems you guys were a bit kill hungry and just wanted to frag instead of actually roleplaying anything but I might be wrong...


P.S: The reason I reported you is because @Mak informed me that it was you who killed me.

 

[hop1003]

I can see where you're coming from but at the point where I put my hands up I don't see why you would still kill me? You could have just gotten back in the car and driven away or whatever and with the rules: "Attacking to kill should be carried out sensibly and not as a first resort, unless you have a good reason for immediate lethal action." and "You may not kill a Law Enforcement Officer unless you have a valid roleplay reason to do so. These could include, but is not limited to, visibly carrying illegal weapons or visibly performing an illegal activity. These reasons depend on the context. If police are attempting to initiate an arrest on you while you are carrying hidden illegal items in your inventory, that is a valid reason to kill them"

I wasn't in any way "attempting to initiate an arrest on you" WITH MY HANDS UP. I simply don't see why you should have killed me, I was in no way a threat to you with my hands up, you assumed I knew about the mugging for the sole reason because I was talking on my radio and while you just wanted to "confront" the ford raptor (which you also wrongly assumed wanting to KOS y'all because he was near you guys?) you still instantly resorted to shooting me because I pulled you over and talked on my radio even after I put my hands up.

To me, this just seems you guys were a bit kill hungry and just wanted to frag instead of actually roleplaying anything but I might be wrong...


P.S: The reason I reported you is because @Mak informed me that it was you who killed me.

Letting you live would have almost guaranteed that you would have snitched. I tried not to kill you at first. In the video, you can hear me saying it's fine in response to my friends wanting to shoot right away. But due to you almost obviously talking over the radio. I shot you. Also in the rule, it mentions that iwe werecarrying an illegal weapon visibly, at this point. In total, we had reason to shoot right away but we didn't. The actions you took lead us to our final option: to shoot the cop who pulled us over when we were all equipped and just mugged someone.

Also roleplaying out keeping your hands up as so sounds like a mugging and we were on a timer.

 

[Valentino]

Letting you live would have almost guaranteed that you would have snitched. I tried not to kill you at first. In the video, you can hear me saying it's fine in response to my friends wanting to shoot right away. But due to you almost obviously talking over the radio. I shot you. Also in the rule, it mentions that iwe werecarrying an illegal weapon visibly, at this point. In total, we had reason to shoot right away but we didn't. The actions you took lead us to our final option: to shoot the cop who pulled us over when we were all equipped and just mugged someone.

Also roleplaying out keeping your hands up as so sounds like a mugging and we were on a timer.

the rule says it depends on context, and in this situation, the context was that I was just clearing the 911 call and I had my hands up. I was in no way a threat to your illegal activities and sure you can say it was almost guaranteed I would have snitched on you but that is not how it works. Just like how I can't kill every single witness in a raid, mugging or anything else illegal because there is a big chance they might snitch. Also it might "sound" like a mugging but it isn't, according to the rules a mugging is "Mugging/Robbery - The act of stealing someone's personal belongings in a public place." By telling me to keep my hands up or maybe even shooting out my tires/destroying the car you're not taking any of my personal belongings so it wouldn't have been a mugging.

 

[hop1003]

the rule says it depends on context, and in this situation, the context was that I was just clearing the 911 call and I had my hands up. I was in no way a threat to your illegal activities and sure you can say it was almost guaranteed I would have snitched on you but that is not how it works. Just like how I can't kill every single witness in a raid, mugging or anything else illegal because there is a big chance they might snitch. Also it might "sound" like a mugging but it isn't, according to the rules a mugging is "Mugging/Robbery - The act of stealing someone's personal belongings in a public place." By telling me to keep my hands up or maybe even shooting out my tires/destroying the car you're not taking any of my personal belongings so it wouldn't have been a mugging.

This will be my final response. You are a cop, not a random civilian witness. You do try to kill every cop in robberies. We had no way of knowing you were just, "clearing a 911 call." As you were stepping away from our car and talking into your radio. From our point of view, a cop pulls us over soon after a mugging after interacting with a witness. You then proceed to talk on your radio for a good few seconds while not approaching us. Without 2020 hindsight, all I see is a cop playing it cool and attempting to get back up. Had you proceeded with the traffic stop normally and not acted suspiciously we wouldn't have done anything. Following the rules of visibly equipped and with the context that we had just committed a mugging and were in the escape vehicle, we could have shot you right away. I await managements decision on this.

 

[PMX]

Under review.

 

[Thanewolfe]

Hello @Valentino Meid,

Thank you for your report, after reviewing the evidence you provided as well as the context provided in this board I have determined that I am basing my decision on the following:

1. You may not kill a Law Enforcement Officer unless you have a valid roleplay reason to do so. These could include, but is not limited to, visibly carrying illegal weapons or visibly performing an illegal activity. These reasons depend on the context. If police are attempting to initiate an arrest on you while you are carrying hidden illegal items in your inventory, that is a valid reason to kill them.
2. Surrendered parties (in a Raid, Mugging, Kidnapping and/or Robbery) may not be killed unless they are actively resisting, not valuing their life, threatening to kill or snitch on you, yelling for help or the Law Enforcement, or fail to fulfil requested demands.
3. Law Enforcement may only be harmed if they are a direct threat to you. Passing by officers and deputies, such as those obeying NLR, may not be harmed unless they initiate on you

Provided there was the context of previously committing a crime and the context of carrying illegal weapons visibly, it would stand to reason that you could possibly pose a "direct threat" to their operations. Seeing as you were not a bystander / passing by LEO and you were carrying out a traffic stop, this could constitute reasonable suspicion to engage you (this happens in real life more often than I care to see) and as such is not violating these rules. HOWEVER, as you were a "surrendered party" at the time of engagement this is where I find fault. I see this as an opportunity to roleplay (e.g. disarming, cuffing, disabling your vehicle) to which I have notified and warned Hop about immediately engaging in that exact situation.


Staff report concluded.