Breaking Rules

[Al límite]

Your Steam Name: Al límite
Your Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:456070217
Your Character Name (If Applicable): Ozzi Matt

Admin being reported( Tag by writing @ before their forum name) @StewartJames

Reason for Report: Players can only raid Town Hall to kill the Mayor, if the Mayor has a lower than 30% approval rating, or is being corrupt. Once the Mayor is assassinated, they must flee. They may not stick around. Mugging/Robbery - The act of stealing someone's personal belongings in a public place. He raided a public office to take the mayor his hostage in a public zone considering the town hall is a public area.
Time of Occurrence: 11:50 Am Est Wednesday July 7th 2021
Evidence to support your claim: https://streamable.com/6noxna
https://streamable.com/la86qu
Additional members involved/witnessing:
Read, understood and followed staff report rules?:

 

[StewartJames]

The mayor let and walked me in. I ziptied him in the lift. This was a hostage sit, not a mugging or raid.

Are you the same person who asked me directly in radio about a situation already dealt with and about "still trying to get video" from another situation in order to specifically target me?

I also know you are the same person who I had to blacklist prior to this in OOC for insulting other players.

This has all the hallmarks of another targeted report.

More, there is no rulebreak here.

A 3 by 3 meter enclosed elevator space is not a public area.

 

[Al límite]

The mayor let and walked me in. I ziptied him in the lift. This was a hostage sit, not a mugging or raid.

You're still taking a player hostage in a public area the whole townhall is considered public where ever you are .

Are you the same person who asked me directly in radio about a situation already dealt with and about "still trying to get video" from another situation in order to specifically target me?

I was curious why you shot him it was just a question I told you that I attempted to get the video becuse it was clear as day you broke rules no intent to target.

I also know you are the same person who I had to blacklist prior to this in OOC for insulting other players.

Those players were being quite sarcastic and disrespectful so I said a few words back and I recived a punishment for it.

This has all the hallmarks of another targeted report.

Not Targetted Rather than showing community managment of your constant rule breakings

More, there is no rulebreak here.

There is you can't take people hostage in public areas it's the same as muggings and robberys it's cop baiting and un realistic

A 3 by 3 meter enclosed elevator space is not a public area.

Just becuase you're in a elevator that does not exclude the fact you're in city hall

 

[StewartJames]

"You may not mug or kidnap in crowded places or near any NPCs, criminal or regular - you must do it in less populated and less exposed areas. This may not be in front of an NPC and/or governmental buildings such as the Police Department, Sheriff's Department, Hospital, Fire Department, City Hall, and the Bank."

This rule does not mean I may not kidnap someone out of sight of NPC in said building - this is a compound sentence which means the "this may not be in front of" continues to the "governmental buildings". As such, I may not kidnap anyone in front of these buildings, as this would be considered a public place. Otherwise, robbing the bank would be a rulebreak because the bank is considered a public place, which is clearly not the case.

 

[Al límite]

You may not mug or kidnap in crowded places or near any NPCs, criminal or regular - you must do it in less populated and less exposed areas. This may not be in front of an NPC and/or governmental buildings such as the Police Department, Sheriff's Department, Hospital, Fire Department, City Hall, and the Bank."

This rule does not mean I may not kidnap someone out of sight of NPC in said building - this is a compound sentence which means the "this may not be in front of" continues to the "governmental buildings". As such, I may not kidnap anyone in front of these buildings, as this would be considered a public place. Otherwise, robbing the bank would be a rulebreak because the bank is considered a public place, which is clearly not the case.

Robbing the bank has a purpose which is money , Would be no different than raiding the pd. It's not really the fact of the matter that you raided the town hall it's the rule states you may not raid it enless the mayor's rating is 30% or under , I like how you say this rule does not state "Such and such So I must be allowed" Is this not what the common sense rule is ? You're exploiting a grey area of the rules it's quite obious that the town hall would be a public area considering the reason penthouse is public is becuase it's beside the pd and realisitcly there would be people / secuirty all over the damn building. Townhall realisticly weather or not ss was signed on would have people crawling encluding goverment agents trained to shoot a pea off of a table following the mayor. The Town hall is public despite what anyone says Just because the kidnap took place in a 3x3 elevator does not excuse the fact it was still in the city hall and you take him hostage , Which If I remember would be breaking raid timer becuase you state you took him hostage in a 3x3 elevator than taking him to his office therefor raiding the property after kidnapping someone would be you breaking raid timer , Yet again another rule I must point out that you break during your responces. You tend to break several rules from point a to point b once you join the server having about 13 Concluded / Accepted reports on you with rule breaks pointed out, This will be my last response I will let Server Director / Community Managment deal with this report.

 

[StewartJames]

Robbing the bank has a purpose which is money , Would be no different than raiding the pd. It's not really the fact of the matter that you raided the town hall it's the rule states you may not raid it enless the mayor's rating is 30% or under , I like how you say this rule does not state "Such and such So I must be allowed" Is this not what the common sense rule is ? You're exploiting a grey area of the rules it's quite obious that the town hall would be a public area considering the reason penthouse is public is becuase it's beside the pd and realisitcly there would be people / secuirty all over the damn building. Townhall realisticly weather or not ss was signed on would have people crawling encluding goverment agents trained to shoot a pea off of a table following the mayor. The Town hall is public despite what anyone says Just because the kidnap took place in a 3x3 elevator does not excuse the fact it was still in the city hall and you take him hostage , Which If I remember would be breaking raid timer becuase you state you took him hostage in a 3x3 elevator than taking him to his office therefor raiding the property after kidnapping someone would be you breaking raid timer , Yet again another rule I must point out that you break during your responces. You tend to break several rules from point a to point b once you join the server having about 13 Concluded / Accepted reports on you with rule breaks pointed out, This will be my last response I will let Server Director / Community Managment deal with this report.

13 accepted reports?
I mean why have you checked that and counted them if there is no alternative motive here other than pointing out a rulebreak?
That having been said I'm also fairly certain that's a miscount.

I entered the front of the townhall, not the rear, and so had not entered a raid timer as I had not lock picked in.

Separately, even if I had entered a property in order to take a hostage, that is acceptable according to rules.

Penthouse is not a public place. There's even an illegal npc dealer next to it.

The grey area you identify is that perfect spot between just fragrp and following the rules and only the rules, and the other end of the spectrum which is rulebreaks. In between those two ends is an area often identified as creative roleplay, something this server has reduced in as a result of all the refund requests and reports to get items back.

Rules tell us what we aren't allowed to do, they don't list what we are allowed to do.

The rules also do not say I am not allowed to ziptie a mayor in an elevator alone. Anywhere.

Moreover, the mayor has made no report about this even though he was the affected party. He also survived and lived a long time after. In fact, no one died as a result, making this one of the most successful hostage situations in a long time. My commendations to the PD on this one!

 

[Al límite]

That having been said I'm also fairly certain that's a miscount.

Me checking and pointing out that you have several reports concluded / accepted on you is miscounduct ? I would like to hear the thought process on this , Further more I was informing anyone who reviews the report that you have had several previous *Talkings To* And I blieve if this is accepted it's time for a punishment. Me counting things is not against the rules nor is pointing it outI said it respectfully and never disresepcted you.

I entered the front of the townhall, not the rear, and so had not entered a raid timer as I had not lock picked in.

This is the problem you took him hostage in the public area than raided the t

The rules also do not say I am not allowed to ziptie a mayor in an elevator alone. Anywhere.

But it's apart of other rules therfore making what you did a rule break in a grey area

own hall were you baricaded your self in his office you're on raid timer once you kidnap him than once you lockpicked your way into the mayors office that would be breaking raid timer.

Separately, even if I had entered a property in order to take a hostage, that is acceptable according to rules.

You took him hostage outside of the property than entered it after wards to take him hostage.

Penthouse is not a public place. There's even an illegal npc dealer next to it.

Penthouse Lobby is a public place you can see in previous reports / Refund Request were Server Directors have said that penthouse lobby is not muggable.

Rules tell us what we aren't allowed to do, they don't list what we are allowed to do.

That is the point of rules correct but you're still susposed to follow them and use common sense with grey areas.

Moreover, the mayor has made no report about this even though he was the affected party. He also survived and lived a long time after. In fact, no one died as a result, making this one of the most successful hostage situations in a long time. My commendations to the PD on this one!

I mean the mayor does not need to make a report anyone can make a report when they see fit if a rule break occured + I was invloved in the situation anyway therefore yet again making me eligible to make a report against you , The point of the report system is to report all rule breaks that are commited so that people are told they broke the rule

 

[StewartJames]

Messages from other staff members have helped confirm that town hall would be considered a public area.

As such I'm happy to receive any process that may come as a result of the report.

I'd like to point out that ""You may not mug or kidnap in crowded places or near any NPCs, criminal or regular - you must do it in less populated and less exposed areas. This may not be in front of an NPC and/or governmental buildings such as the Police Department, Sheriff's Department, Hospital, Fire Department, City Hall, and the Bank." really quite clearly designates the front of town hall as a public place which implies the inside is not.

I'll volunteer myself to start looking at ways we can make rules clearer because for a player that doesn't spend every day on the server it becomes hard to follow a rule system made complex and different to the text form hearsay and precedents.

There isn't a way as a normal player I could have researched whether townhall is considered crowded - at the time, it was not crowded, and so this was all I could have done to tell if I was following the rules.

If the rules uphold a system of places "considered crowded" rather than whether they are actually crowded, then these considerations need to be made explicit and I'd be happy to start work on that.

 

[PMX]

Locked for review.

 

[Melody]

Hello,

Thank you for your report. After review, it does appear that Stewart was in the wrong in this report.

He has been removed from the team.

Concluded.