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Lil Pat

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Your Steam Name: lil pat
Your Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:128221758
Your Character Name (If Applicable): Jermaine Smith


Admin being reported: (Tag by writing @ before their forum name) @8B1T
Reason for Report: Didnt handle sit correctly.
Time of Occurrence: 10pm EST 4/29/18
Evidence to support your claim: Swat was raiding out house. We didnt know why as no warrent was placed on the owner, nor was a chief on. The swat was camping our house for about 5 minutes until running up without attempting to talk. He ran up and busted down the garage door. After the raid was done we all called a sit. 8B1T deemed the raid valid even though according to rule 5.2.1.12 it states,
  1. A SWAT officer can not perform simplistic police activities like traffic stops or issuing traffic tickets, but can be called as backup if approved by the mayor or the chief. They may only patrol during either emergency state or exceptionally risky conditions within the city.
Since there was no chief at the time he could not get permission from him. We asked him in the sit and he said he didnt get permission from mayor either. This makes him not able to become SWAT as he does not have permission nor was there an emergency state.

Heres videos:

Additional members involved/witnessing:
@Dmoz @Perchance @The Chef @reactskate @N.Moore
 

Dmoz

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So I kept argueing it's invaild because no permission was given to anyone that it was allowed. Hence the rule; I cant go SWAT and raid a house on my own without something stated with evidence or permission. So with this saying I can go SWAT for a makorov bandit in an alley way? Plz read that ES and see how they have to properly do it(This happened just about now).

512ABDC6C58A8D5692B9163B50242AC07E6F41A4


EDIT: Can Bryan the main cop player help back this, since he does not go SWAT randomly with-out a reason and may be able to explain the rule. As well 8B1T was told by highers ups it's valid.
 
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8B1T

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I was flying around after just clearing a few sits and Dmoz said in !report "SWAT on without Emergency State". The rules (5.2.1.12) states "A SWAT officer can not perform simplistic police activities like traffic stops or issuing traffic tickets, but can be called as backup if approved by the mayor or the chief.
They may only patrol during either emergency state or exceptionally risky conditions within the city." it doesn't state they require Chief or Mayor's direct influence to initiate but they can be regulated by them.
During this situation I went over to the S.W.A.T officer and asked him "Why are you on S.W.A.T?" he responded with " Here's what happened, I watched three officers get gunned down and the people that did it ran into the white warehouse." this is a "exceptionally risky condition" I had also made sure he did not die previously in the situation (breaking NLR) which he did not.

I went over to Dmoz and posted the rule in /looc and Dmoz says "Okay but there's no Chief or Mayor to order anything he's constantly giving out *LAG* they keep attacking us.
But did the Mayor give him permission?" I responded "Uhm, It doesn't state that he HAS to have permission it just states it has to be a exceptionally risky condition."
He went on to give some examples and told me the S.W.A.T kept attacking them, I said "He gave me the reasons, I am gonna go watch him for a second and make sure he's not trying to bait you guys." I closed his ticket and watched over the S.W.A.T which just so happened to be the start of the raid.
He called for backup multiple times and eventually got police to his location he initiated the raid which started a huge cluster of gunfire and reports, the raid went on for a second and Dmoz asked me "What is this bs?' I responded "Watching the guy."
Dmoz asked for evidence so I waited for him to be deceased and out of R.P and I brought him to a roof-top he explained again the killing of the officers and he did indeed have evidence but was using Play.TV (My old recording software) and had to leave the game to retrieve the evidence.
I granted him permission, took down his SteamID and RP named then went on attempting to moderate the situation whilst constantly getting spamed by Dmoz and other members of the base attempting to get assistance (You can see later on in Lil-Pats video I was going through all the names who where messaging me and creating reports making sure I got everyone involved.)
I asked Tango to TP awhile back and he just now TPED to me we had discussion about verifying my decisions since I prefer to run them through someone to make sure my actions are appropriate.

He stated in part of his conversation with me "you don't necessarily have to get a warrant to raid someone." I agreed 100% already but I was making sure. I teleported over to Dmoz (since he was still PMing me about the situation and said "He doesn't have to have a warrant" he argued with that I disclosed to him I ran it through another staff member and they agreed he switched the subject and says "So...tell me where the evidence is for that raid, cause they just busted that door."
I said "I'm getting it their *meant to say he* is providing it for me, so you're gonna have to wait but I do know who initiated the raid it was the man who we had discussed earlier, I have his SteamID here if he fails to provide the evidence it's false" Refunds would've been a little complicated but I wrote down the time and date so I could revisit the logs and mark down their items.
He then goes back to the "warrant" issues and says "they should need a warrant to enter, if we're firing at them then okay but to break open the property you need a warrant"
I said "I'm aware, but he had evidence and there was a reason (at which point more sits start popping up about the raid) the situation goes on for a second until he brings up "they have to have the evidence beforehand, they can't just give it after."
Now I do agree with this point and the person can and will be brought up to speed about this but there's nothing I can do seeing as it's already done and they person is offline getting the evidence.

Dmoz said (something along this line) "I'm pretty sure he died in the raid" (They had previously been raided) so I checked his logs and discovered (again) he did not die during that instance.
As I was finishing his log check Zawait Alsama walked up to the location I was taking a sit with Dmoz in and said "i want my G36 and my armor"
I start messaging Tango since he asked who started the raid, I provided a name and kept chatting with Tango whilst listing to the two men. then Jermaine Smith joined our sit area at which point I was about to move everyone but Tango moved everyone for me (including me).
I thanked him cause he saved me some work. Once on the roof-top Dmoz asked for the evidence again I said "It'll be a second, he has to reconnect." he got a little heated and said "reconnect?", I don't quiet remember but someone said something like "did he break nlr?" so me being super nice I checked again for them along with all his logs. he did not break nlr, after the log check I said "I mean, he did die just now after getting absolutely shredded by you guys, but that's it" Dmoz pointed out "he's right here" (Him being the S.W.A.T officer with evidence) I went over to him and had him step out the car, I noticed his name was one letter off the S.W.A.T officer's name so I apologized for the inconvenience and let him keep rping. Whilst I was going back up to the sit The S.W.A.T in question made a report saying "@8B1T I got that proof" I silent brought him to the roof-top and which point I asked for the evidence and he provided. Me and Tango (and I believe Tyler cause I sent it in staff chat) saw the video and called it valid and while there were RP things that could've been done better that's nothing I could punish him for. (Mind you, this was my first sit of this size so it was a little bit confusing and overwhelming but was settled.)
In Lil-pat's video I say "let me see everyone who had has issues with this raid" I listed off the people to confirm with the surrounding people. Rest in the video. Afterwards I realized I had missed two sits (they were up there, just not claimed) so I claimed it, teleported to them explained the situation and closed it.
 
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Thy

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So your issue is basically that there shouldn't have been SWAT since there was no chief?
 

Dmoz

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So your issue is basically that there shouldn't have been SWAT since there was no chief?
Yes, they could of had a chief to become SWAT with permission and ES to go into the raid. The person to report the incident to the police drove to PD went SWAT and proceed to raid.
 

Thy

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I don't really see the issue to be honest? You shot at cops so armed police showed up to shoot back?
The rule you are quoting in the original post is about SWAT patrolling and doing normal police duties, not SWAT raiding so it's not really relevant in this case.
 

Dmoz

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I don't really see the issue to be honest? You shot at cops so armed police showed up to shoot back?
The rule you are quoting in the original post is about SWAT patrolling and doing normal police duties, not SWAT raiding so it's not really relevant in this case.
Im reading the rule as you have to be approved by either power to be deployed on any situation. And being police alot I remeber you cant just become SWAT because of a shoot-out you had to get permission to become SWAT.
 

Thy

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Im reading the rule as you have to be approved by either power to be deployed on any situation
A SWAT officer can not perform simplistic police activities like traffic stops or issuing traffic tickets, but can be called as backup if approved by the mayor or the chief. They may only patrol during either emergency state or exceptionally risky conditions within the city.
You need permission to go as backup to "simplistic police activities".
You do not necessarily need permission to deploy under extraordinary circumstances, that wouldn't make much sense.
What if the chief has been shot? Should they just go
"Oh well gosh darn, better leave them there mass-murderes alone, they shot the chief so we don't have permission, golly, better go home to the missus".

What I'm seeing right now is you shooting at cops, so you got shot by the cops, and now you're trying to make up a rulebreak to get out of having lost your items.

Lifehack: Try not shooting at the cops.
 

Tango

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SWAT officers can be called as backup for a police raid. They don't need permission, if police are being murdered by people with assault rifles. The only exception is that police MUST be on scene with SWAT, and police officers were there to supervise SWAT. I also was there to help @8B1T and deemed this raid valid from the evidence provided. I also watched over the sit, and 8B1T handled it professionaly and as nicely as possible. Considering it was his first "big" sit.
 

The Chef

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Afterwards I realized I had missed two sits (they were up there, just not claimed) so I claimed it, teleported to them explained the situation and closed it.
1bdef74420e5fd130a1883bd595367b1.jpg

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What if the chief has been shot? Should they just go
"Oh well gosh darn, better leave them there mass-murderes alone, they shot the chief so we don't have permission, golly, better go home to the missus".
yes

What I'm seeing right now is you shooting at cops, so you got shot by the cops, and now you're trying to make up a rulebreak to get out of having lost your items.
The evidence/reason for the raid is because the SWAT Officer breached the garage door and waited for us to start shooting at them so he could shoot back, there was no evidence prior to the raid, no one was outside, nor was there anyone shooting. Since the evidence for the raid was us shooting cops in a raid, it is invalid as the raid was finished, if it were different i.e. someone had a gun outside and they took a picture of the bandit with the gun, then it would be valid, but the raid was invalid because, as the rule states, new evidence to support a raid must be gathered.
  1. As law enforcement, once you have performed a raid, regardless whether or not the raid was successfully, you can not raid the same property unless you have gathered new evidence that justify a police raid.

The raid was also sparked by evidence provided in third person, another rule which is broken as shown in 2.3.6
  1. Any information/evidence needed for IC actions, eg: raids, muggings etc. must be gained from first person view. Any sort of information gained in third person is invalid.

Therefore, regardless of the bendiness of the Chief's Permission/Emergency state rule, they still broke the rules, making the raid invalid.
 

8B1T

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The evidence/reason for the raid is because the SWAT Officer breached the garage door and waited for us to start shooting at them so he could shoot back, there was no evidence prior to the raid, no one was outside, nor was there anyone shooting. Since the evidence for the raid was us shooting cops in a raid, it is invalid as the raid was finished, if it were different i.e. someone had a gun outside and they took a picture of the bandit with the gun, then it would be valid, but the raid was invalid because, as the rule states, new evidence to support a raid must be gathered.

That raid was never successful nor unsuccessful since the involved person never died.

The raid was also sparked by evidence provided in third person, another rule which is broken as shown in 2.3.6
That doesn't apply here because while the evidence was gather "in third person" it could still be seen from a first person P.O.V.
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Also, perhaps I missed you in the sit and that may be a real possibility if so I do apologize for that.
 

The Chef

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That doesn't apply here because while the evidence was gather "in third person" it could still be seen from a first person P.O.V.
Regardless of whether or not it could be seen from a First Person POV, it wasn't, therefore the evidence was invalid.
 

8B1T

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Regardless of whether or not it could be seen from a First Person POV, it wasn't, therefore the evidence was invalid.

So, say I'm a R-3 (Richard 3) as a Police Officer and I call backup (Two more officers) I am in third person we knock on the door and he opens the door and murders 2 of my friends, since I'm in third person I am unable to put a raid on him without it being valid? That logic makes zero sense. Yes the evidence was in third person but everything could still be seen from a first person perspective.
 

The Chef

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So, say I'm a R-3 (Richard 3) as a Police Officer and I call backup (Two more officers) I am in third person we knock on the door and he opens the door and murders 2 of my friends, since I'm in third person I am unable to put a raid on him without it being valid? That logic makes zero sense. Yes the evidence was in third person but everything could still be seen from a first person perspective.
Rules are rules. In that situation, as well as the situation in the evidence he provided, the officer wouldn't run the fuck away while officers and lieutenants were being gunned down, he would stay there and assist because it's FailRP to do otherwise. Using your ' l o g i c ', they could have just as easily gone into first person, seen it, recorded it, and used it as evidence, however if you see my next point (wrote out of order), there is no reason why that evidence is valid as the evidence was a recording of a raid on the property.
That raid was never successful nor unsuccessful since the involved person never died.
Using the logic you mention, theoretically, I could raid a house as SWAT, and someone could record me getting gunned down, use that as evidence for another raid after 10m NLR timer, return, get gunned down, have the kid record it again, use that as evidence for another raid after 10m NLR timer, and continue this until everyone is dead.
 

reactskate

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umm the swat rdmed me and vincent lol we rolled up didnt hop out the whip and got fired up thats all I witnessed and i lost some gun i think it was a scar
P.S. Please walk up to the car instead of shooting it next time please and thank you not every car that rolls up to a situation is code red you know;']
 

Thy

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So seeing as almost everyone involved is permanently banned and I believe that @8B1T handled the sit correctly, I see no point in keeping this open.

Denied.
 
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