Failure to Value the Hostage's Life.

[Nitr0us]

Your Steam Name: Nitr0us
Your SteamID: STEAM_0:0:149632917
Your Character Name: Enzo Escobar

Target Steam Name: BrandonX
Target SteamID: STEAM_0:1:68834865
Target Character Name (if known): N/A

Request Reason: Police deputy failed to value the hostages life. I had taken a fire chief hostage, and had gone through full negotiations. Towards the end of the situation where I was exiting my apartment, I had my weapon directly pointed at the head of the fire chief, and one of the deputies straight up shot me with a shotgun, failing to value the hostage's life.

All the staff online at this point were also police (TazDevil, he gave me the person's steam id), if this report is proved successful I'd also like permission to get a refund request for my M4 w/ a sight which I lost.

When did the situation occur?: ~11:30pm EST.
Your evidence to support your claim: Included link to YouTube video below.

 

[Skojen]

Under Review.

 

[Skojen]

@CanadianBrandon, you have 24 hours to respond to this player report being made against you otherwise it will be handled without your input.

 

[CanadianBrandon]

Hi, as said we did go through negotiations in which I was involved in as I was a first responder as well as one of the only deputies in Pine County. However, let me quote the rules:

[5.2.1] General Law Enforcement Rules

1. In a hostage situation, you are obligated to value the life of the hostage and begin negotiations. A superior Law Enforcement Officer/Lead Negotiator may, however, call off negotiations at any time if they are not being successful. This includes, but it is not limited to the hostage takers not complying with negotiation terms, constantly threatening law enforcement or refusing to negotiate.

As far as I'm concerned, we did begin negotiations. The hostage taker did threaten law enforcement several times, which included muzzle sweeping the police multiple times, muzzle sweeping the hostage multiple times. Considering the hostage taker still had a firearm, was still in the possession of a hostage and was threatening to kill the hostage if his demands were not met, we did not see it as successful.

I also don't see it as a failure to value life as there was an obvious threat of incapacitation of the hostage and other officers, and it was a clear and easy kill to retrieve the hostage. It's not like I shot at him through a wall in an attempt to kill him, which could've resulted in the death of the hostage, I quite simply took advantage of the situation and took action when he was least expecting it. It was a clear and easy kill in order to retrieve the hostage without the possibility of incapacitation of officers or the hostage.

As far as you can see in this clip as well, it certainly did not look like he was pointing a gun at his head either. I clearly caught him by surprise and once again I took the opportunity and retrieved the hostage.

 

[Nitr0us]

Hi, as said we did go through negotiations in which I was involved in as I was a first responder as well as one of the only deputies in Pine County. However, let me quote the rules:

[5.2.1] General Law Enforcement Rules

1. In a hostage situation, you are obligated to value the life of the hostage and begin negotiations. A superior Law Enforcement Officer/Lead Negotiator may, however, call off negotiations at any time if they are not being successful. This includes, but it is not limited to the hostage takers not complying with negotiation terms, constantly threatening law enforcement or refusing to negotiate.

As far as I'm concerned, we did begin negotiations. The hostage taker did threaten law enforcement several times, which included muzzle sweeping the police multiple times, muzzle sweeping the hostage multiple times. Considering the hostage taker still had a firearm, was still in the possession of a hostage and was threatening to kill the hostage if his demands were not met, we did not see it as successful.

I also don't see it as a failure to value life as there was an obvious threat of incapacitation of the hostage and other officers, and it was a clear and easy kill to retrieve the hostage. It's not like I shot at him through a wall in an attempt to kill him, which could've resulted in the death of the hostage, I quite simply took advantage of the situation and took action when he was least expecting it. It was a clear and easy kill in order to retrieve the hostage without the possibility of incapacitation of officers or the hostage.

As far as you can see in this clip as well, it certainly did not look like he was pointing a gun at his head either. I clearly caught him by surprise and once again I took the opportunity and retrieved the hostage.

1. To quote the same rule you cited, 5.2.1 specifically states "A superior Law Enforcement Officer/Lead Negotiator", you were a police deputy (not superior) and did not have any participation in the negotiations (the chief, John Lenoard was leading them)" therefore, you did not have the power in the situation to call of negotiations.

2. You state "It was a clear and easy kill in order to retrieve the hostage without the possibility of incapacitation of officers or the hostage," I was standing at point blank range with my weapon directly pointed at the hostage. Firing your shotgun did pose a significant possibility of incapacitation of officers or the hostage; what if your shot had also damaged the hostage? damaged me but didn't kill me? No officer in a realistic situation would take that risk. I would of understood if you had took the shot while I was still at the top of the stairs, and the hostage was at the bottom (as shown in my video), but you took the shot while I was standing right behind the hostage with my gun pointed at him.

3. You also claim, I " muzzle sweep[ed] the police multiple times, muzzle sweep[ed] the hostage multiple times" As demonstrated in my video, my gun was on the hostages head throughout the entirety of the situation, the only time at which it was taken off was to usher the detective down the stairs.

4. "I clearly caught him by surprise and once again I took the opportunity and retrieved the hostage." As demonstrated by my video, your attempts at hiding behind the wall were not effective, as you were in my sights for a good few seconds, and part of your body was still showing when you were trying to hide behind the wall. I was not taken by suprise, rather, entrusted that an officer wouldn't take a risk of loosing a hostage while the police force was already to the end of the situation with a resolution. Had you have waited an additional 15 seconds when we've left the apartment, there would of been no risk of me harming the hostage, or you accidentally harming the hostage through your shot and you could've fired then.

 

[CanadianBrandon]

1. I was the first responder, I briefed the Chief on what had happened, in which I gave him directions at multiple times on how to proceed. I called him back and forth, I told him when you wanted to speak and I received no backlash for the actions that were decided upon. I was also at the front, almost directly behind the chief during the entire negotiation, you can even hear me in the video run down the stairs and go "Quiet" because everyone was listening to what I had to say. I gave directions to the other officers which made me a superior.

2. If you look at my video, it sure looked like you had your gun to the right side of him, no-where close to his head. From my perspective, you were well within 1 foot of the barrel of my shotgun and buckshot doesn't spread that much, so me aiming directly at your head within about a foot of distance doesn't make me think that somehow the buckshot would magically spread and hit the hostage. I think the shotgun would've been less likely to kill you if you were atop the stairs, so I wouldn't have taken the shot. Shotguns have a lot of stopping power at close range, so we both know well enough that if you're close enough it's going to instantly kill you. I was on your right side, and from the angle I was at, you were behind him which once again made me confident I would not hit him.

3. The definition of muzzle sweeping someone can be as simple as pointing your gun at someone. You pointed it at a police officer (the detective) and the hostage.

4. I don't think I can be in your sights if you're aiming at the hostage. Sure, I was in your field of view, but you didn't react. You weren't expecting me to shoot you point blank to get the hostage. Once again

Overall, I'm not going to shoot you when you're any further away then what you were. That adds uncertainty to the kill and once again me and you both know that shotguns are close-quarters weapons and are likely to kill people instantly at that type of range.

 

[Skojen]

Hello @Nitr0us,

After careful review of this player report, I have concluded that a rulebreak did occur:

[5.2.1.8] General Law Enforcement Rules
In a hostage situation, you are obligated to value the life of the hostage and begin negotiations. A superior Law Enforcement Officer/Lead Negotiator may, however, call off negotiations at any time if they are not being successful. This includes, but it is not limited to the hostage takers not complying with negotiation terms, constantly threatening law enforcement or refusing to negotiate.

You were not the superior nor the lead negiotator, it was a quick and dangerous attempt that you had seemly pulled off without any authorization. Yes, you were the first responder but you still were one of the lowest ranking Law Enforcement Officers there, not a superior.

If for example you missed your shot on the hostage taker (although you were in very close proximity to them), they could had killed the hostage.

In the video provided by @Nitr0us, it is clear that you were not the lead negiotator. If I am correct, I believe I heard John Leonard (he could had been a Superior) and a detective who were negotiating with the hostage taker.

You were not seen to be negotiating.

A superior Law Enforcement Officer/Lead Negotiator may, however, call off negotiations at any time if they are not being successful.

This rule cannot be any more clearer as it summaries my point.

Thus, the reported player will be receiving 2 Warning Points for FailRP.

Player Report Accepted,
Locked & Moved.