Hostages

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Should cops have to value the hostages life at all times?


  • Total voters
    27

Huey

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Nov 7, 2018
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The police on the server take it upon themselves to not value the hostage in situations a lot and I wanna see what everyone thinks about it. Personally I don't care but I also don't think you can call this Roleplay if cops are just going Rambo 24/7. But I hope this is a friendly discussion as I wanna see what civs and cops think about it
 

Alphadef

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Jul 1, 2020
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By rules they are actually required to value the hostages life as much as they reasonably can.
 

Huey

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Nov 7, 2018
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Well I've had several admins argue with me differently @Alphadef to where if they think they got a chance to kill the hostage takers then can jus say screw it even with guns at the hostages head
 

Alphadef

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If they can kill you quickly and before you can kill the hostage in retaliation then yeah, that would be reasonable. Valuing the life of the hostage doesn't mean it has to go exactly how you want it to.
 

Huey

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Nov 7, 2018
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@Alphadef it has nothing to do with how I wanted it to go as I was just having fun, but i could've killed the hostage 3 times over before i even took a bullet while he was shooting the other guy but I didn't know wtf was happening so I didn't (note the hostage was the Asst. chief as well)
like I said though I don't care just doesn't seem like you can call it an RP server if every situation where you try to actually RP it's just a call of duty gun fight lmao
 

Rutobia

Monolith Newcomer
Mar 26, 2021
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I think that they should not be able to fire unless the hostage taker does something stupid like expose his back to police or let the hostage get out of their line of sight while they talk to the police. If they are allowed to shoot the hostage taker no matter how careful he is being just because they "thought could take the shot" then they simply don't need to value the hostages life, and when that plan fails they can just resort to "I thought I had a good shot on them." That makes hostage taking literally useless.

I think additionally though if a S.W.A.T sniper (and only the sniper) is able to get their sights on them then they should be able to shoot regardless of if the hostage taker is positioned right for two reasons. One, they are a sniper, they have a rifle that with a headshot can drop someone instantly, if they line up a shot and don't miss the hostage will be safe. And two, it would give people a specific reason to play sniper instead of the regular unit. If the hostage taker is worried about that they can do the negotiations somewhere that they feel safe.
 
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Huey

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Nov 7, 2018
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I agree @Rutobia with my situation my homie was at the front of hostage with gun to his head and i was behind the hostage with a gun to his head, the cop had to kill my homie, move around to see me then put a whole clip in me missing half the shots, so i had ample time to shoot him i just thought it was an obvious rule break so I didn't kill the hostage, even the hostage who was a moderator thought so.
 

Alphadef

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In that situation I would honestly agree. I feel they have a right to make a call to kill if they can, but they have to be able to actually pull it off if they make that call (like a Shotgun or the 50 cal)
 
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Huey

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Nov 7, 2018
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@Alphadef exactly like if they did it tactically it would've been sick for RP, but 1 cop shooting with a guy on each side of the hostage and no angle on me is kind of just FailRP at that point (IMO) for the reason I could've killed him 3 times over before I was shot and even when i was shot still took him half a clip but I didn't shoot cuz I didn't wanna break a rule because I was just confused at the point.
From what I've seen though over multiple situations is that the cops will just start shooting because they want to move on to something else, which sucks cuz there's a lot of potential for cool scenarios with hostages if they actually worked out
 

StewartJames

MRP Administrator
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Apr 5, 2019
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There is extremely clear guidance on hostage situations on forums.

Failure to follow this can result in the removal of a chief whitelist or if a serious incident occurs punishment starting at a week's blacklist.

The rules say negotiations need only be started by PD.

Policy states that lethal force may only be used if the hostage is secured, if there is a 100% certain chance it will work and it is extensively planned, or if the hostage takers start posing a direct lethal threat to hostages or officers.

A range of techniques are also stipulated.

I strongly discourage the changing of the rules simply because some people haven't learned to read at this stage in life.

This entire discussion is already finalised in the hostage policy on forums, and you are all coming to the same conclusions reached in the policy.
 

StewartJames

MRP Administrator
MRP Administrator
Police Command
Apr 5, 2019
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@StewartJames so if rules like this are a thing why does every admin I talk to tell me something different about these situations?
Because rules are for admins and policy is for police supervisors.

If the police at least start negotiation, then they abide by the rules and admins have little to offer.

Policy is for anyone with a police supervisor tag. Alternatively, present to the admin the policy set out on forums, how the other person broke it, and ask them to consider this as failrp.
 

HuskyD0G

Monolith Senior
Mar 23, 2020
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Yee haw land
Rules clearly state a hostage is required to be in zip ties to be considered a hostage, also demands must be realistic. Demands such as ( I want 3 cakes, 2 officers demoted, or trading a cop for the hostage) are not realistic demands. Realistic demands are such as ( I want my warrant removed, I want 3.5k (each) hostage, I want free passage, I want all swat to back off) are reasonable demands and police should not break negotiations unless something goes wrong. If they make and demands such as the ones listed that aren’t realistic the police are allowed to push in and attempt to save the hostage. If the hostage is not in zip ties, it is not a hostage situation and does not have to be treated as such. If you’re an experienced player I would highly advise trying to RP those situations through until the end regardless however, unless they aren’t in zip ties.
 
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Max Vercetti

Monolith Veteran
Jul 30, 2019
253
77
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Canada
You should follow procedure during hostage situations and the rules , The goal is to make sure the hostage takers are taken down preferably alive , And to make sure the hostage is released to safety without any harm. Sometimes this can be difficult with criminals not wanting to negotiate , Just because you have a hostage does not mean you own the whole world you have to be realistic and know the pd can't just let you walk free they can do as much as possible to make it seem like you have a good getaway but once they can get the hostage or take a lethal shot to insure more safety of the hostage they should do so. In My opinion the whole pd policy's has to be re written and looked over and needs a complete change in command and supervisors just so things run more smoothly but at the moment Follow the rules and policy during hostage situations and don't be unrealistic thats all
 

Foxtrot0295

Monolith Rookie
Apr 14, 2019
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I think this stems from the fact that in some situations the hostages don't have bindings on their hands therefore they aren't technically a "Hostage" according to the rules. So, police use the fact that they technically don't have to follow the order of the "hostage takers" and just rush in, completely ignoring the fact that although the person doesn't have bindings they still have 2 or 3 guns aimed at them.
 

StewartJames

MRP Administrator
MRP Administrator
Police Command
Apr 5, 2019
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You should follow procedure during hostage situations and the rules , The goal is to make sure the hostage takers are taken down preferably alive , And to make sure the hostage is released to safety without any harm. Sometimes this can be difficult with criminals not wanting to negotiate , Just because you have a hostage does not mean you own the whole world you have to be realistic and know the pd can't just let you walk free they can do as much as possible to make it seem like you have a good getaway but once they can get the hostage or take a lethal shot to insure more safety of the hostage they should do so. In My opinion the whole pd policy's has to be re written and looked over and needs a complete change in command and supervisors just so things run more smoothly but at the moment Follow the rules and policy during hostage situations and don't be unrealistic thats all
Mate two out of three of police command are currently dealing with a wealth of real life exams.
In two weeks we will be back in full action and happy to help.

If you have any constructive ideas for the policy to be amended feel free to share them.

I'd like to also remind you that 5 months ago there wasn't a PD policy or command at all, it has been built from the ground up in response to the absolute free for all the preceded it.
 

JucaMais

Monolith Veteran
May 1, 2019
203
332
63
Brazil
www.youtube.com
I'd like to also remind you that 5 months ago there wasn't a PD policy or command at all, it has been built from the ground up in response to the absolute free for all the preceded it.
At least before, if a cop did shit he would be punished accordingly by the rules, now if they screw something it will be just a "policy" break, no true punishments will be sued at all.

You guys basically created another punishment standard exclusive for cops that is not efficient as it should be. Honestly, who cares being chief blacklist, at any time the person can just play in other cop role at just 1 click and keep messing others RP over and over.
 
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StewartJames

MRP Administrator
MRP Administrator
Police Command
Apr 5, 2019
256
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At least before, if a cop did shit he would be punished accordingly by the rules, now if they screw something it will be just a "policy" break, no true punishments will be sued at all.

You guys basically created another punishment standard exclusive for cops that is not efficient as it should be. Honestly, who cares being chief blacklist, at any time the person can just play in other cop role at just 1 click and keep messing others RP over and over.
Previously they would get a warning point that add up to 8 points before they get a days ban.

Now, they get points on their PD record that add up to 5 points before they get a weeks blacklist from the entire PD, which can escalate up to a six month blacklist.

We did this in response to players complaining about cops never getting punished for their actions. Now they do, and have been getting very serious punishments.

For individuals who aren't fit for chief, they get the whitelist removed, and then after that are subject to the same rules as all other cops.

Perhaps read the punishment system here: https://monolithservers.com/forums/threads/mpd-department-actions.29673/

If cops aren't getting punished correctly, post this link and ask the staff member to read it in full.

Literally could not be more clear or more strict.
 

Alphadef

MRP Administrator
MRP Administrator
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Jul 1, 2020
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At least before, if a cop did shit he would be punished accordingly by the rules, now if they screw something it will be just a "policy" break, no true punishments will be sued at all.

You guys basically created another punishment standard exclusive for cops that is not efficient as it should be. Honestly, who cares being chief blacklist, at any time the person can just play in other cop role at just 1 click and keep messing others RP over and over.
I think the tricky part is just remembering when and how to use the severity points, not that they exist in the first place. Because the new system is much harsher than anything they would have gotten in the past.
 

JucaMais

Monolith Veteran
May 1, 2019
203
332
63
Brazil
www.youtube.com
Now, they get points on their PD record that add up to 5 points before they get a weeks blacklist from the entire PD, which can escalate up to a six month blacklist.

We did this in response to players complaining about cops never getting punished for their actions. Now they do, and have been getting very serious punishments.

think the tricky part is just remembering when and how to use the severity points, not that they exist in the first place. Because the new system is much harsher than anything they would have gotten in the past.
As you guys are stating this, next time i record a cop misconduct ill then report the person to you guys or the other supervisors.
I must admit that I didn't know you guys have created more punishments other than just blacklisting from chief
 
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