Lockpicking cops? "Silent raid"?

[sp00fy]

I didn't know whether to put this in Player Reports or Staff Reports, so move it if necessary. Also, this is not as much of a report on a player breaking the rules, but rather a report to clear up some confusion about what's allowed and what's not.

Your Steam Name: sp00fy.emoji
Your Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:27085731
Your Character Name: Sun Lao

Target Steam Name: Just Josh (@JustJosh)
Target SteamID: STEAM_0:1:104846614
Target Character Name (if known): Josh Benoit

Request reason: There's a couple of things that confuse me about the legitimacy of Josh's police raid on my property. First of all, he lockpicked my door while on job as a cop. How is this not FailRP? I've been playing on the server for almost two weeks at this point, and not once have I experienced the police lockpicking a door to engage a police raid. And in all honesty, I feel that it's entirely unrealistic and should be deemed FailRP. Also Josh told me the act of doing this is called a "silent raid", a term I have never heard before in relation to the server.

Secondly, I don't understand how the police had probable cause to forcefully enter the property. Josh said, and I quote: "We had probable cause of shots fired". To my knowledge, no shots were fired inside our apartment within the previous 5-10 minutes, and personally I did not hear any shots coming from other apartments. Now, I could had just misheard, but still I don't see this as a valid reason to bust into our apartment, considering the police had no proof of it coming from our apartment.
Last of all, I'd like to quote a rule from the rules list: "Before performing a police raid, you should gather video or picture evidence (screenshots) to ensure and prove that there is illegal activity going on at that specific property.". This rule was entirely ignored, considering the police raid was executed on the assumption that shots came from our apartment. Now you could probably argue that the second part of the rule, which is: "Witnessing can only be used as evidence if it comes from a superior officer such as a sergeant or above. 911 Calls can not be used as evidence to raid a property." could be used to legitimize the raid, as Josh was ranked Sergeant or above, but he didn't witness any illegal activity, as no shots came from our apartment.

I'd like to finish this off by saying that I'm not out to get get anyone, I'm simply confused about what's right and what's not. I truly believe Josh did what he thought was right, but I still need to argue against it. You might think I'm doing this report because I'm "salty" for getting raided, but truth to be told, we killed both cops without taking a hit and there was no aftermath.

When did the situation occur?: 22/10/2017, 3 PM~ish CET
Your evidence to support your claim:
Screenshots of conversation between Josh and I: https://i.imgur.com/pJmhYqV.png | https://i.imgur.com/jb8W0qK.png
Nief (Shawntae Williams) also saved a Shadowplay recording of the five minutes leading up to the raid, but I didn't think it would be necessary to upload, considering an administrator is involved.
Additional members involved/witnessing: @Nief cs.money

EDIT:
I mostly put this up to get the opinions on the matter of other rule-enforcers, hoping to reach a mutual understanding.

EDIT 2:
After I posted the report, I made a quirky remark in OOC. The logs go as follows:

[15:39] [OOC] sp00fy.emoji: jsutjosh consider urslef reported hah!!!!

[Notice] You have been blacklisted from the OOC chat. By JustJosh, for 1 day.

[PM] You to JustJosh: What was that for? Now I'm really confused
[PM] JustJosh: The comment you made in OOC was not needed
[PM] You to JustJosh: It was my way of giving you a headsup that the report you told me to make is up
[PM] You to JustJosh: I meant to harm by it, and it was very clearly a joke
[PM] You to JustJosh: Atleast that was my attempt
[PM] You to JustJosh: No harm*
[PM] JustJosh: Wasnt funny, The forums will notify me of the report
[PM] You to JustJosh: Maybe you didnt find it funny, but how is it offensive enough to have me blacklisted?
[PM] You to JustJosh: I find this entirely unreasonable
[PM] JustJosh: Add it to the report then
[PM] You to JustJosh: Could you please give me a proper explanation as to how it was offensive and/or against any rules?
[PM] You to JustJosh: If you don't reply I'll just take it as this conversation is over

(The logs are copied directly from in-game chat, you can check up on the logs if you believe I redacted them)

As I also stated to Josh in PM, I find this blacklist entirely and totally unreasonable. My intent by the comment was not to enrage or hurt Josh, but to be funny. That's all. I don't know how Josh perceived the comment, but I attempted to explain my intentions, to which he didn't seem to care.

 

[deleted_user_574]

The term "silent raid" was simply what I call it, You have mentioned that you have never seen it within the two weeks you have played this and that is the answer to the question you asked. It is a rare event and not used often.

@Dirty Harry kindly helped us with this one:

Now to the reason: When I hear shots coming from the apartment and you do not open the door when asked, I will enter to investigate.
You could be dead for all I know, So answer next time, Not every cop is here to arrest you. What you choose to do when I do so is your choice (In this case you opened fire)

Just to add, A comment like this one:

is indeed not needed as I have already told you in game. Joke or not.

 

[sp00fy]

When I hear shots coming from the apartment and you do not open the door when asked

You say you heard shots from "the apartment". Does this mean you specifically heard shots from the apartment we were in? Because I can assure you that absolutely no shots were fired from our apartment within 5 minutes prior to your arrival. Also no shots were fired within our range of hearing (we didn't hear any) in this time period, so I still don't understand how the shots you heard could lead to our apartment. I had not previously seen Thy's OOC message about the lockpicking, so I see that there is some legitimacy to the raid. Still, even though there is no specific rule against lockpicking door as police, I don't see a logical reason as to why it should be allowed.

About the OOC blacklist.
So far, the only reasoning you've given for the blacklist is that the comment "was not needed". How is this a blacklistable offense? And how is it an offense in the first place? You can't seem to give me a logical explanation, so how can it be anything but a false punishment?

 

[deleted_user_574]

Make a suggestion for a rule implementation then. The blacklist is justified as I've state comments like these are not needed. Feel free to appeal that also

 

[sp00fy]

The blacklist is justified as I've state comments like these are not needed.

You're further proving my point that my only offense was that "the comment was not needed". You have made no attempt at explaining neither what this means or why it's an offense. At this point all I can do is wait for another staff member's perspective on the matter, as we clearly cannot come to an agreement.

Make a suggestion for a rule implementation

This should not be necessary, as there is a general rule about FailRP, which should cover this exact topic.

 

[deleted_user_574]

You have made no attempt at explaining neither what this means or why it's an offense.

I find the comment quite rude and disrespectful, You need to keep stuff like that on the appropriate forum board and not start calling people out in OOC

 

[ChosenDemon]

From what I remember, it was decided that lockpicks are not illegal, only using them to break into places to raid or to steal cars is illegal.

 

[sp00fy]

From what I remember, it was decided that lockpicks are not illegal, only using them to break into places to raid or to steal cars is illegal.

If what you say is valid, then Josh used the lockpick illegally. My understanding of roleplay tells me that a cop breaking the law is FailRP, unless the cop is corrupt, but this is not allowed on the server.

EDIT:
After investigating the rules about government corruption, I can see that my previous statement was wrong.
"The government must maintain democracy, the elections can not be overruled. They can, however, be corrupt and accept bribes if approved by staff."

 

[deleted_user_574]

The lockpick was not used illegally, It was used for lawful entry to a property in which I had heard shots fired to perform my duties as you did not open the door.

 

[Aaron]

Locked

 

[Stuvi]

Declined.

Lockpicks are not illegal - There is no law that says the police is prohibited from using them to get access to buildings.