Long bans and why they kill the community... kind of. A discussion

[FreeSpy]

Spoiler: Disclaimer

Nothing in this thread is a jab at anyone.
This is meant to be a discussion, treat it akin to a discussion
I'm writing my opinion, you're also entitled to your own in the comments of the post
Be respectful

Alright. So... as we recently saw, multiple long time players were banned for upwards of a year for an exploit during the April Fools HL2RP Event.
This is not a light thing, and it has brought something to light with a lot of players that got long bans (1+ months, etc, you get the idea.)


They don't come back to the extent they were once playing at. This is for a couple of reasons, but the main reasons are

People lose interest when they get banned. They realize they can do something else and just go do that, and get fixated on that. This happens with normal players, but it is more prone to those who get bans that are 1 month+

There is nothing to do.
You're afraid to be re-banned
There's no one to play with


But there's more.
Monolith players who play in groups, would you play if your friends were banned? If the guys you played with for months just poofed but you were left? If you appealed a ban and got accepted but the rest of your friends were still banned for a shit ton of time? Most would say no.

There's no reason to play on a server where you aren't welcome, where your friends aren't welcome, where what was fun once is no longer there. Where if you slip up once the staff are on you like sharks.
I've spoken to many who share these feelings. The server is dying, and this is one of the issues surrounding the death of the server.
Banning people for years ruins the interest of long time supporters. Keep that in mind, friends.
I get that banning people is needed, but take into consideration you lose a lot of people because of long bans and because banning friends causes the friends themselves to quit. And even after being unbanned? They don't come back, atleast not at the same rate they used to, because of many reasons, most mentioned above, but there's more. Hell, even players who don't get banned fall to this.

So Monolith, what do you think about what I wrote here, and, do you think this is an actual issue or just some random rant, and, is this damaging the server.

 

[Thanewolfe]

@FreeSpy443,

There is a simple solution to this: follow the server rules and do not exploit a glitch endlessly to cheat the economy and gain exotic items.

 

[Alphadef]

Actions have consequences. We don't want to give out long bans, we do so because it is necessary. There must be consequences for exploitation. (Also the server has been "dying" since I joined it for the first time)

 

[TwewT]

I've seen it happen to icefuse. Their cityRP server used to have 80+ players daily. Usually a MRDM was a 2 weeker. However, They started banning more players for longer (Including myself) for "harassment" or "job abuse" when in reality, I paid for a serial killer job so i could kill someone every 2 minutes. They banned me for 6 months because i kept killing the same person as serial killer.

So yea, It does kill a server.

 

[FreeSpy]

@FreeSpy443,

There is a simple solution to this: follow the server rules and do not exploit a glitch endlessly to cheat the economy and gain exotic items.

Actions have consequences. We don't want to give out long bans, we do so because it is necessary. There must be consequences for exploitation. (Also the server has been "dying" since I joined it for the first time)

While this is related to that, it isn't the main issue.
This is a thing about the bigger picture and the bi-products of banning people for a long time.
There's some things that while may seem necessary to you to us it really doesn't, and this is to discuss those things. There is no real simple solution, otherwise this discussion would not be a post right now.

 

[Thanewolfe]

While this is related to that, it isn't the main issue.
This is a thing about the bigger picture and the bi-products of banning people for a long time.
There's some things that while may seem necessary to you to us it really doesn't, and this is to discuss those things. There is no real simple solution, otherwise this discussion would not be a post right now.

I disagree, you directly call out my bans, which is why I responded because this isn't even a discussion that we should be having... If you exploit MALICIOUSLY with intention to gain an advantage over players who are LEGITIMATELY waiting every 10 minutes to gain a ration, you have no place in our community. The punishment in my opinion should harsh so as to send a message to every other player, "Do not exploit while on our services." there is no room for discussion here. If you happen across an exploit, it is your duty as an honest member of the community to report it to the proper authorities, any less is considered a breach of our ToS.

There is no "bigger picture" when considering the "bi-products" of banning people, we understand the implications of long bans and the severity of those actions, which is why we choose our lengths very carefully. The fact that they are given the chance to appeal after exploiting tells you all you need to know.

"Alright. So... as we recently saw, multiple long time players were banned for upwards of a year for an exploit during the April Fools HL2RP Event.
This is not a light thing, and it has brought something to light with a lot of players that got long bans (1+ months, etc, you get the idea.)"

 

[Alphadef]

While this is related to that, it isn't the main issue.
This is a thing about the bigger picture and the bi-products of banning people for a long time.
There's some things that while may seem necessary to you to us it really doesn't, and this is to discuss those things. There is no real simple solution, otherwise this discussion would not be a post right now.

But the thing is, the fact that exploiting and mass rdm are long bans is not a secret. Personally I wouldn't want to play with people doing either, and if any of my friends got banned for it I'd say it's their own fault and problem. What level of punishment do you feel these offenses deserve if not a lengthy or permanent ban?

 

[FreeSpy]

The punishment in my opinion should harsh so as to send a message to every other player, "Do not exploit while on our services." there is no room for discussion here. If you happen across an exploit, it is your duty as an honest member of the community to report it to the proper authorities, any less is considered a breach of our ToS.

And did I say I disagree with that? No. I agree with it. But if you don't wanna have a discussion then don't reply?
There is room for discussion, because what is hurtful in a discussion about such topics. Don't get your hesitance to discuss, but alright. I won't push it. But no need to take it with hostility. If I wanted to have a discussion about the ration bullshittery, I'd have made a post stating that, but this is over the bigger picture. IF you wanna acknowledge the fact that it's an issue, that's up to you, but I don't think that matters. Those who want to discuss, can comment, or DM me privately, but if you don't wanna have a discussion, feel free to not post.

But the thing is, the fact that exploiting and mass rdm are long bans is not a secret. Personally I wouldn't want to play with people doing either, and if any of my friends got banned for it I'd say it's their own fault and problem. What level of punishment do you feel these offenses deserve if not a lengthy or permanent ban?

See this is where there's a difference between some of the longer players who do org stuff and players who don't really associate with those people
The orgs get themselves in trouble and are more or less friends beyond gmod at that point, since I'm still friends with people who got permed for massing and whatnot, but, I don't care about that? Because they're still my friends and without them mono aint the same, but I push on through. Some don't however. If a friend got banned for it, while it may be their fault, why the hell would I play a game without my friends. that's kinda dumb ngl. I don't like playing without my lads, and I can assure you there are more like me.

 

[Thanewolfe]

And did I say I disagree with that? No. I agree with it. But if you don't wanna have a discussion then don't reply?
There is room for discussion, because what is hurtful in a discussion about such topics. Don't get your hesitance to discuss, but alright. I won't push it. But no need to take it with hostility. If I wanted to have a discussion about the ration bullshittery, I'd have made a post stating that, but this is over the bigger picture. IF you wanna acknowledge the fact that it's an issue, that's up to you, but I don't think that matters. Those who want to discuss, can comment, or DM me privately, but if you don't wanna have a discussion, feel free to not post.

You're backtracking in your statements, you specifically quoted my bans and said "this is not a light thing" as if these were not justified, to which you say that you agree with them now. I don't know why you would use my bans for the exploiting as a start of this discussion, you make it appear as if they were not reasonable or justified in any way. When I say there is no room for discussion, I meant specifically for the exploiting bans, if you exploit on our services, you will be removed -- end of discussion. I am not hesitant to discuss other matters, but exploiting / cheating (hacking) of any kind will not be tolerated on the server, it is far too damaging to our reputation and the players to leave unpunished.

You are suggesting that we lessen the time for serious issues, which is where I have a problem. If you want to be so tongue-in-cheek with your responses, I will have no issue removing you from the forums. I have a duty to respond to these discussion posts as they have an effect on the community I care deeply about, you are slandering our name and our methods of punishment with a silly reason to back it.


Here is where I will end this discussion thread, we are not going to reduce or remove bans from players who cheat the server by hacking, exploiting, causing drama with malicious intent and Mass RDMing. Those bans will remain and they will be treated seriously, we choose our ban times very carefully. If you do not like the fact that your friends made a mistake and were banned, go find a server to play with them. We will not be removing their bans without appeal, nor will we reduce their bans just because they are your friends and you want to leave the server now. In life you make mistakes, you will face consequences for those mistakes. It is an unfortunate part about running a server, and yes you will lose dedicated players because their friends made a mistake and got banned, it comes with the territory, Gurra did not get into this without understanding at least that much. We care deeply about each of our players on the server, we want to make everyone happy, but unfortunately, this will not happen. It is not a perfect system by any means, but it is a lot better than plenty of servers that I've been apart of. We review every SINGLE ban that we issue and we have a lot of safeguards in place to ensure that our bans are fair and issued properly. Moderators and Administrators need permission from an SA+ to get a ban issued that lasts longer than 1 month. If they want a permanent ban they need permission from a Server Director+. To suggest that we need to issue lighter punishment for SERIOUS issues and that we are causing the server to die by removing offending players is ridiculous. If you want to have a serious discussion about ban reasons, feel free to DM myself or anyone from Community Management and we can shed some light on the reason.