Outta nowhere, and back again

[Deruta]

Your Steam Name: Delta_Online sups.gg
Your SteamID: STEAM_0:1:88801023
Your Character Name: Ethen Den

Target Steam Name: Treezy | N/A | N/A
Target SteamID: STEAM_0:1:25471901 | N/A | N/A
Target Character Name (if known): Django Freeman | N/A | N/A

Request Reason: While responding to a call about a shooting/fleeing suspect at Gun Store. We responded but for me it was much too late, everyone is gone, dead, or done. After checking that everyone was basically already dead, I was just putting a clamp, but a group of people just ramped up and started shooting for whatever reason. For the Skyline group, which are the two unknown could've been called for backup, so no too sure for them, but I did note that Treezy was the initial contact for this, which I don't believe should've been done. Seeing as the situation was finished and no one was seen by that group to possibly have affiliation, or an affiliated person being arrested.

Afterwards you can see that I get RDM'ed in hospital right after respawning, no contact, and not even going to respond. Being the fact that I've already been killed by their group, and we were standing in a respawn/green zone. Yet they shot me in the back of the head, no words from their side either.
When did the situation occur?: 11:10 EST 2/10/2022~
Your evidence to support your claim:

Additional members involved/witnessing: EMS standing near, and the officer who also got shot around the corner.
Read, understood and followed player report rules?: Yes

 

[misterlol29]

Under Review

 

[misterlol29]

@Django Freeman you have 12-24 hours to respond and provide your side of the story of what happend before this report is processed without it.

 

[Django Freeman]

Request Reason: While responding to a call about a shooting/fleeing suspect at Gun Store. We responded but for me it was much too late, everyone is gone, dead, or done. After checking that everyone was basically already dead, I was just putting a clamp, but a group of people just ramped up and started shooting for whatever reason. For the Skyline group, which are the two unknown could've been called for backup, so no too sure for them, but I did note that Treezy was the initial contact for this, which I don't believe should've been done. Seeing as the situation was finished and no one was seen by that group to possibly have affiliation, or an affiliated person being arrested.

Afterwards you can see that I get RDM'ed in hospital right after respawning, no contact, and not even going to respond. Being the fact that I've already been killed by their group, and we were standing in a respawn/green zone. Yet they shot me in the back of the head, no words from their side either.

You are 100% correct, I was not part of the skyline group that was about your initial call at the gun store, I do not know them, nor did they know I got arrested, their incident with the other police and mine and your incident are different combats. I pulled up there because I was following you and you pulled up there, I was going to kill you but I got hit down to 14 hp by another police so I got into my car (Red F&F) to flee the scene. AT 25-26 Seconds Into your video you can see my F&F on the left right there, THEN at 38-39 Seconds into your video you can see its gone because I drove away. I wasn't even part of that shootout and you literally know this and the only reason I felt it was okay to start shooting at you is because I thought everyone was dead, I wouldn't 3rd party or FTVL that situation and furthermore did not know you died in a shootout after I left because at this point because I was gone, so when I seen you again and killed you I did not know that you were on a new life, I thought you were only at the hospital to get healed/buy medi.

In the first paragraph of your post you go on to imply that it is unknown if me and the skyline were together (we weren't) but then the last two lines you say I've already been killed by "their group" which I am not apart of, which one is it?

After you arrested me for 30 years I came to try and kill you (Did not know this was against the rules at the time.) especially considering it seems my character would have a grudge against the character that jailed me for 30 years, officers, judges etc get killed in real life over that same exact thing so I thought it was valid roleplay, definitely a weird rule to say the least because RDM implies random, it's not anywhere close to remotely random if my character is killing your character because you 're the one and sole reason I was put behind bars and couldn't see my family for 30 years.

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Also you were operating as a whitetail ranger in the city, isn't the city out of your jurisdiction anyways? You said you responded to a call, did a higher up of the city police ask you to come to that call? Because you're just saying "we responded" you and them have differed jurisdiction's, been seeing this a lot lately and as a whitetail ranger you're not just supposed to go to the city and find crime there and arrest people unless asked by a chief or captain to come down here for say a bank raid or something. Just saying if you were in your proper place of operations you would of never been the one to arrest me or get killed by me for doing so.



Obviously the wording of the zones is a bit messed up as it still says monoford but we all know what it's supposed to say and what it means.

 

[misterlol29]

@Deruta What is your response?

 

[Deruta]

In the first paragraph of your post you go on to imply that it is unknown if me and the skyline were together (we weren't) but then the last two lines you say I've already been killed by "their group" which I am not apart of, which one is it?

I still wouldn't have known in any capacity if you were together, or not, if you didn't comment about it. Just seemed like you were, as both parties initiated contact.

After you arrested me for 30 years I came to try and kill you (Did not know this was against the rules at the time.)

Yeah, I usually try to do a forewarning to people who say they'll kill before going to jail. As that implies a rule violation. Even then that's still a rule violation that occurred against me. Yet it does seem odd that you initiated with a MonoPD, and I'm not even sure you got to me in any capacity. As it was the other two who really engaged me.

chief or captain to come down here for say a bank raid or something. Just saying if you were in your proper place of operations you would of never been the one to arrest me or get killed by me for doing so.

I heard the call and asked if they needed extra, extra assistance, and basically just got a "Yeah, yeah, whatever, just everyone get down to gun store." (It was that kind of PD at the moment)

 

[Deruta]

I wouldn't 3rd party or FTVL that situation and furthermore did not know you died in a shootout after I left because at this point because I was gone, so when I seen you again and killed you I did not know that you were on a new life, I thought you were only at the hospital to get healed/buy medi.

To also add, this also goes against officers as well. As we aren't allowed to go to hospital and say, oh yeah that's the guy. When we've broken contact for so long that they might have died before we ever place a warrant.

Plus due to this break in engagement, you notice that while in the hospital, I never engaged you, even though I technically saw you with illegal weaponry.

Not in the terms of corruption, but more on the basis of NLR/ Green Zone finding. Thus I was bounded to walk away and not interact, but you shot a non-threatening officer. In certain terms, I could've called out and tazer you.

Yet I was killed even though it was noted that I was the first inside the hospital, not rolling up in a Tahoe, or saying the usual "Get down, hands up, now wiggle around." No words/attention was directed to either side until I was shot, even having a random civi calling out that, that was a no go.

 

[Django Freeman]

I heard the call and asked if they needed extra, extra assistance, and basically just got a "Yeah, yeah, whatever, just everyone get down to gun store." (It was that kind of PD at the moment)

No, the time you arrested me was way before that gun store call even took place as when THAT call took place I had already served my 30 years and got out of prison, I'm talking about how you were in the city at the time of arresting me for 30 years which was way before that situation. What business did you have being in the city then? As there was no call at that point to have you be in the city arresting people doing crime, it's not your jurisdiction.

I still wouldn't have known in any capacity if you were together, or not, if you didn't comment about it. Just seemed like you were, as both parties initiated contact.

Not sure why they initiated contact but they were not with me, most likely part of the situation that you got a call about and I trailed you to .

Yeah, I usually try to do a forewarning to people who say they'll kill before going to jail. As that implies a rule violation. Even then that's still a rule violation that occurred against me. Yet it does seem odd that you initiated with a MonoPD, and I'm not even sure you got to me in any capacity. As it was the other two who really engaged me.

Most of the time people talk out of character and start rulesplaining there is little truth to what they are saying because they will stretch it so it benefits their RP experience and not the actual rules. It would definitely make sense that I thought I could KOS the officer that took me away from my family for 30 years, there is less valid RP reasons that you can KOS for, like how you can kill a cop that is arresting you but not after you've served your sentence.. the rule makes no sense to me personally but it's still a rule that I didn't know about. After I pulled up right after you did I started shooting at you when I arrived on the scene and then the Riverden PD started shooting at me, most likely assuming I was with the skyline group which you could of told them that I was a separate party since you had seen me trailing you before you arrived to that particular scene in your video, when I seen the skyline people pull up and shooting at the police, that's when I retreated because I didn't feel like taking on the whole police force and other people in a shootout, only wanted to kill you. If I was with them, I obviously wouldn't have left the scene as even If I died they would of had my items and found a way to give them to me in a new life, I didn't know them.

Yet I was killed even though it was noted that I was the first inside the hospital, not rolling up in a Tahoe, or saying the usual "Get down, hands up, now wiggle around." No words/attention was directed to either side until I was shot, even having a random civi calling out that, that was a no go.

The random civi said something after I had already killed you, I thought that you didn't say anything because you didn't see the gun, it's not like I seen you half an hour later at the hospital and killed you, it was literally 4 and a half minutes later, that's shorter than the time it takes most people to die if they do not get 4 minuted. Circumstantially you did get placed on a 4 minute about 10 seconds after I left, In my mind I was thinking there was no way you could of died that quickly because you were still having a shootout with them as I was driving away, just seen you shooting at the skyline people less than 4 and a half minutes ago, so of course I assume that you were just getting medical.

 

[Deruta]

No, the time you arrested me was way before that gun store call even took place as when THAT call took place I had already served my 30 years and got out of prison, I'm talking about how you were in the city at the time of arresting me for 30 years which was way before that situation. What business did you have being in the city then? As there was no call at that point to have you be in the city arresting people doing crime, it's not your jurisdiction.

It was about another shootout going down, which you weren't involved in until you came back around and started another shootout. Also I was still called to assist the initial shootout, nothing about you.

Not sure why they initiated contact but they were not with me, most likely part of the situation that you got a call about and I trailed you to .

Yeah, basically, just seemed like you all got around at the same time, but can't really dis/prove the point.

After I pulled up right after you did I started shooting at you when I arrived on the scene and then the Riverden PD started shooting at me, most likely assuming I was with the skyline group which you could of told them that I was a separate party since you had seen me trailing you before you arrived to that particular scene in your video, when I seen the skyline people pull up and shooting at the police, that's when I retreated because I didn't feel like taking on the whole police force and other people in a shootout, only wanted to kill you. If I was with them, I obviously wouldn't have left the scene as even If I died they would of had my items and found a way to give them to me in a new life, I didn't know them.

I truly didn't even take notice to your trail, but aside from that I can generally understand 1v1 vs 1vEntire PD.

The random civi said something after I had already killed you, I thought that you didn't say anything because you didn't see the gun, it's not like I seen you half an hour later at the hospital and killed you, it was literally 4 and a half minutes later, that's shorter than the time it takes most people to die if they do not get 4 minuted. Circumstantially you did get placed on a 4 minute about 10 seconds after I left, In my mind I was thinking there was no way you could of died that quickly because you were still having a shootout with them as I was driving away, just seen you shooting at the skyline people less than 4 and a half minutes ago, so of course I assume that you were just getting medical.

Mmm, I don't know about this one though. As running away from a gunfight without a vehicle would take a hot minute even at 100 Food/Thirst. Plus I could be visibly disarmed as I had no gun on my back, nor did I again react.

 

[misterlol29]

@Django Freeman would you be so kind to summarize all your reasons that led to you having KOS on @Deruta

After you arrested me for 30 years I came to try and kill you (Did not know this was against the rules at the time.)

(As you already know this isn't a valid reason)

Plus I could be visibly disarmed as I had no gun on my back, nor did I again react.

He isn't wrong about that. According to the rules "shooting to kill" should be carried out sensibly.

1. Attacking to kill should be carried out sensibly and not as a first resort, unless you have a good reason for immediate lethal action.

Running up to him from behind (clear view that he had no primary), not interacting with him through chat/voice and instantly shooting to execute him would be a violation of said rule in this case (This could all have been avoided if you interacted with him instead of just shooting him).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Deruta

I still wouldn't have known in any capacity if you were together, or not, if you didn't comment about it. Just seemed like you were, as both parties initiated contact.

There is a difference between "knowing" and "a suspicion". If you "knew" he was part of the initial group who attacked you then of course you can protect yourself from him as well. If you only had "a suspicion" that would mean that the only thing you could do against him is be wary and nothing else since after all you are a police officer and shouldn't just start shooting everyone who "might be part of the group"

To also add, this also goes against officers as well. As we aren't allowed to go to hospital and say, oh yeah that's the guy. When we've broken contact for so long that they might have died before we ever place a warrant.

This not completely true. As long as it is within the timespan of 1 hour, you have a good description of the person of intrest and you "to your knowledge" didn't think he died it would still be allowed to bring him in for questioning.

Also @Deruta would you be so kind to summarize the arrest reason that led to the 30 years in prison?

 

[Django Freeman]

I'll keep it short, killed him because I thought you could kill the officer that puts you in prison as this kind of thing happens IRL, thought it was valid RP especially since you can kill an officer that is trying to arrest you if you have a class 3. Afterwards a friend told me that you can not do this though, so I understand the rule I broke. I only killed him once because I thought I had KOS on him from him arresting me for 30 years and snitching on me, definitely coulda been avoided if I interacted with him, also coulda been avoided if he was in his jurisdiction.

Also forgot to mention this in my previous posts but at around 16 seconds in his video he says "Aye whos that guy that went around your car" to which the PD guy approached me and started having a fire out with me, I had a class 3 on me so I had to shoot back, when the 3rd party people started shooting with the cops, I just left because I knew there was no way I was gonna be able to kill the ranger, which was my only goal. If these two reasons are not valid KOS then I technically RDM'd him but I did not know that was RDM, when I use to play on here people would kill me all the time for arresting them and I would kill people for arresting me too with neither side ever making a report on it, I never knew that it was an actual rule that you cannot do this until this situation because it makes sense that I would have a grudge against an officer that locked me up for 30 years and took me away from my "family" for that long.

 

[Django Freeman]

Yeah, I usually try to do a forewarning to people who say they'll kill before going to jail. As that implies a rule violation. Even then that's still a rule violation that occurred against me. Yet it does seem odd that you initiated with a MonoPD, and I'm not even sure you got to me in any capacity. As it was the other two who really engaged me.

If you do commonly have to tell people this then it is a rule that is not known by good amount of people, also I had to initiate with the MonoPD because you said "aye whos that, that went around you car?" and then he started shooting at me because I had a class 3, when that happened I ran to my car and drove away.

 

[Deruta]

If these two reasons are not valid KOS then I technically RDM'd him but I did not know that was RDM, when I use to play on here people would kill me all the time for arresting them and I would kill people for arresting me too with neither side ever making a report on it, I never knew that it was an actual rule that you cannot do this until this situation because it makes sense that I would have a grudge against an officer that locked me up for 30 years and took me away from my "family" for that long.

Well, we're usually unable to use the negligence and ignorance factor into these type of things, but aside from that the whole thing was in the "should've never occurred" type of scenario.

Also @Deruta would you be so kind to summarize the arrest reason that led to the 30 years in prison?

Preemptively at the given arrest, there was a major shootout with a group going against us when we rolled up to a Rural Gas Station Robbery. This led to all of the members of the raid getting downed and eventually I got one, which would be Django. Once captured they were arrested for:

• Possession/Usage of a Class 3
• Armed Robbery of Gas Station
• Attempted Homicide of Multiple LEO's
• Attempting to Flee on Foot
• Possession of a Firearm without a Valid License
• Lying to a Government Official through an official statement (interrogated and lied saying they were a "hostage" when they were a gunman)
  

 

[misterlol29]

Thank you both @Deruta and @Django Freeman for your responses. After reviewing the evidence provide with the video and your statements I have come to the following conclusion.

From what I have gathered, player @Django Freeman mainly used the reason of getting arrested as a primary factor to take revenge and to kill you for it. However this is not a valid reason to kill someone, let alone KOS them. I understand that you were engaged upon by the cops because of their communication but that doesn't give you unlimited KOS on all the cops (such as those who are just going around doing their own things or those who are following NLR, like in this instance @Deruta ). Regardless of the reason, in my own opinion you should have at the minimum said something or interacted at least a bit before executing him.

Because of the reasons stated above @Django Freeman you will receive 1 WP.

(If I forgot anything in my final statement just DM me in discord or forums)

Player Report Accepted