PD Blacklist Appeal

[Deleted member 11477]

Your Steam Name: William Morris
Your SteamID: STEAM_0:0:166554719
Your Character Name: Ping Wing

Which Staff blacklisted you: @StewartJames @Skojenmeister
What were you blacklisted from: Police

Blacklist Length: 6mo
Blacklist Reason: 22 negative points
Unblacklist Reason: To start with, I thought I probably had 1 or 2 negative points, but 22? I'm flabbergasted to hear that number. The only Chief who I know that I probably have some negative points from is from Stewart and that's because he makes it clear over radio if you're getting the point, and if asked he will explain why you got the points. The other 20 or so? I had zero idea about them. If another chief had really given me negative points in the past, that would make me surprised as I would have never heard of it.

I believe I am receiving this blacklist because of an event 3-4 days ago. I probably won't have the video on file, however I can summarise the events.

-PD Raid Occurs
-Main PD raiders taken down, rest of PD being searched
-We hear garage door opening, so we go to check it out
-Me and another officer spot a ferrari momentarily pulling in before rapidly exiting (reckless driving.) He then rapidly drives round the block, which will be important later.
-Under the assumption the ferrari was involved with the PD raid, me and another officer pushed to the front.
-Me and the officer look outside for the ferrari. Suddenly, I hear a groan from the other officer and I look to see a ferrari which had hit him.
Using the traffic policy, I understood you can code red if:
The subject vehicle has caused harm to an officer or civilian
The subject vehicle has posed a direct threat to life to an officer or civilian - driving against traffic
The vehicle is fleeing from an armed felony to gain a tactical advantage

I saw that all of these requirements stated were met (I was unaware that it was actually a detective recklessly driving) so I shot at the vehicle. I shot through the windows to try and disable the driver (code red) and the vehicle blew up. Whilst I first thought there was only one occupant in the vehicle, because of the position of a 2nd passenger in the vehicle I could not see him. Both flew out of the vehicle. It turns out one of the occupants in the vehicle was a police officer, which I did not notice until after he got up and started blaming me for shooting. This is not the first time the detective in question has been recklessly driving. There were numerous reports on that day of this detective recklessly driving and before he made his report tp the chief Skojen against me, he was actually arrested for corruption and reckless driving, fleeing and eluding etc. I believe the report that the detective made against me was to get back at me for arresting him for corruption.

After I had realised he was a detective I was initially not happy at all. I had the support of many other officers on duty calling on a demotion on the detective. No action was taken by the commanding officer on site (forgot if it was an Asst Chief or a Chief) and I thought that was the end of it. Even after this situation where he had hit an officer, he continued recklessly driving and incited a pursuit with multiple officers. He commited hit and run and resisted arrest, which he was arrested for corruption.

After the situation, I was very happy to show my video to Skojen because I was under the assumption that what I did was not against the traffic policy or server rules. After reviewing the video, Skojen said he would be firing me from the department, but never mentioned any points or a long blacklist. At the same time, Skojen had informed me of something that I had never heard of, with the traffic policy in contradiction with his statement.

He stated that (paraphrasing) code red is only to disable the vehicle, and the aim is not to harm the vehicle. I used a counter argument that it clearly says in the policy
"A distinction must be drawn between the use of firearms - shooting single shots at the tyres of the vehicle - and a Fahrenheit or critical shot authorisation - where automatic fire is used to stop the driver by any means"
He then went on to exert his 'power' and position as a police supervisor to call me wrong. I was then going to start a conversation with Stewart on the forums, just to clear out any miscommunication. Before I did that, Skojen stated I was wasting my time, so I left it thinking nothing of it. I saw Stewart in game yesterday I believe, and I sent him a PM to ask about code red. He confirmed that you can disable the vehicle by any means necessary, including shooting the driver on the vehicle and any other possible threats in the vehicle.

In other cases:

One of my first misunderstanding appeals can be seen here: https://monolithservers.com/forums/threads/pd-blacklist-appeal.30467/ Shortly after, I was hit by a blacklist from hockeyexpert.

I have been PD blacklisted before but I believe it was also unfair. Unfortunately, because I clear out my videos every two days (the blacklist came after that) I did not have the video that would support my side of the story and have evidence against a chief in another situation. For the event where I was blacklisted by Hockeyexpert, this was when I was a Pine County Officer in Sunset Island, where I was after assisting a pursuit that went from my jurisdiction into Monoford. While on my way to Trinity Bridge, I saw a pursuit go by me. The chief then rammed into my vehicle (on the wrong side of the road. I then complained over radio and he exclaimed that "I should have assisted in the pursuit, and that I should have not even been in layer 1 anyways."
I told him to stop blaming me for his mistake, citing the fact that I was in layer 1 after a pursuit went from layer 2 to layer 1. He then said I would be receiving a report, but I took it as an empty threat and thought nothing of it. Then I was abruptly banned for one month from PD.

Backstory:

I would just like to make it clear I have not always roleplayed on Monolith. Before I actually learnt that the server could be enjoyable, I broke rules and perhaps this would be why I have so many points on my PD file. However, since January of 2021, I have tried to roleplay a lot better. I now primarily roleplay as a police officer, and occasionally get premium. Why? To become a detective, nothing else. I do enjoy being PD on this server and I don't really enjoy anything else, except perhaps EMS but that can get repetitive. If I was to be hit with such a length of a blacklist, to be honest it would might as well be a ban. I mainly play monolith for a fun roleplay experience, but also trying to not be an arrogant person, making sure others have fun. Sure, if you are rude to me I can be rude back, but if you have nothing against me, I have nothing against you.

It is a shame to have such a record on file, because if I had joined from the beginning and roleplayed from then, I would not be such a negative image. Unfortunately, due to a number of bad mistakes in my past, this will always be held against me whenever I try to play on Monolith, no matter what I might of done. You may say that I have been on the server for a long time, but exclude the times that I got banned when I was messing about (don't do that on purpose anymore?) Then the picture is changed a lot. Even if I have done something which I genuinely didn't know what was wrong, I find myself in situations like this, where I often get a harsh punishment, whereas others would get a slap on the wrist at most. This is especially annoying in the present, because I now don't try to intentionally give others a negative experience and all of my blacklists from then have been either a misunderstanding or false.

TLDR: Made mistakes, false blacklist, never got told about over half of my points and a PD blacklist is practically a ban for me.

Time of Occurrence: From around 3/4 days ago to today.
Additional members involved/witnessing: Requested to make appeal by @StewartJames
Read, understood and followed blacklist appeal rules?: Yes

 

[Jacub]

Hello, well essentially. Any PD supervisor can give you points, I can confirm that you do have 22 points. You could read more about this system here

 

[Deleted member 11477]

I understand any supervisor can give you points. that is not the reason I made the appeal. I made the appeal because I do not remember recieving more than half of these points and the blacklists I had were a misunderstanding, and in my opinion false which I have explained above. It is surprising to be given points with zero notice at all, because then you will not know what you need to improve on to fix while you're on duty. It is the same as instead of bringing people to sits, just instantly banning them with no warning and no reason on the ban. Essentialy a blank ban.

 

[Skojen]

Hello there,

The reason for your 6 Month PD Blacklist is due to a serious misconduct violation & reaching the threshold of 22 severity points.

The serious misconduct violation in question is regarding about the death of two individuals that you were directly involved in; allow me to elaborate:

A driver was code red at the time (you mentioned he was code red) and the vehicle was idle outside of the PD garage - bearing in mind that the suspects vehicle was idle, your approach of apprehending the suspect was by killing both passenger and driver (by getting headshots).

I understand that code red means to shoot to stop the target, but I am more concerned about the approach which was taken - their vehicle was idle posing no threat and I believe other actions should had been taken than killing two individuals.

This incident happened roughly around two weeks ago, however, you mentioning the incident again made me remember to give you severity points for that incident.

I understand that the suspect was code red at the time, but how you approached the suspect by killing both the passenger and the suspect is very unacceptable.

There were a numerous amount of methods at your disposal to stop the suspect (bearing in mind his/her vehicle was already idle) but you took it upon yourself to deliberately murder two individuals.

After reviewing your bodycam footage with you in the discord call, as someone wanted you demoted for that incident, I can confirm that your actions were in fact unprofessional, shortsighted and not humane.

Due to this, this is one of the reasons for your 6 Month PD Blacklist.

 

[StewartJames]

William is appealing the final points issued by @Skojenmeister that put him over the line.

Policy should be clear in stating that using code red means shooting to stop. Shooting to stop means shooting to kill. As such, a code red if met should aim to kill the driver as quickly as possible, not shoot the vehicle to disable it.

The reason for this is if a vehicle is to be shot, there should be no grey areas. If one is allowed to shoot a vehicle, it must be to stop it as quickly as possible due to the danger it poses. Therefore, one ought to shoot the driver, as in real life, cars don't blow up as much.

Policy is also clear that fleeing from an armed felony to gain a tactical advantage - e.g from a bank raid to a base filled with friends with class 3s, can also warrant lethal force.

However, policy is also clear that if these actions are undertaken mistakenly, the responsibility is still on the officer even if they did not know the correct circumstances.

If the code red was valid, then it sounds as if shooting to kill was entirely lawful.

If it was not, William is to be held accountable.

It would help to see the video.

 

[Deleted member 11477]

Hello there,

The reason for your 6 Month PD Blacklist is due to a serious misconduct violation & reaching the threshold of 22 severity points.

The serious misconduct violation in question is regarding about the death of two individuals that you were directly involved in; allow me to elaborate:

A driver was code red at the time (you mentioned he was code red) and the vehicle was idle outside of the PD garage - bearing in mind that the suspects vehicle was idle, your approach of apprehending the suspect was by killing both passenger and driver (by getting headshots).

This incident happened roughly around two weeks ago, however, you mentioning the incident again made me remember to give you severity points for that incident.

I understand that the suspect was code red at the time, but how you approached the suspect by killing both the passenger and the suspect is very unacceptable.

There were a numerous amount of methods at your disposal to stop the suspect (bearing in mind his/her vehicle was already idle) but you took it upon yourself to deliberately murder two individuals.

After reviewing your bodycam footage with you in the discord call, as someone wanted you demoted for that incident, I can confirm that your actions were in fact unprofessional, shortsighted and not humane.

Due to this, this is one of the reasons for your 6 Month PD Blacklist.

I would also like to mention none of the occupants died. They both got up and were able to speak to the asst chief or chief that arrived to speak to them, thus no one was killed.

 

[Deleted member 11477]

I can also confirm that I had a quick judgement call to make. I quickly evaluated the circumstances, and decided that if it was for not my actions taken, it would be likely that the ferrari would retaliate via further running over, or by possibly using class 3's (especially with the fact there had been a PD raid in which multiple class 3;'s were used.)
I shot within seconds of hearing the officer being ran over, and was only able to think about the situation after they had been code red. If the detective in question had drove responsibly at a reasonable speed, the situation would not have happened.

To make it very clear, the detective did not identify himself until after he had been code red, and he got up from being disorientated. I only had an idea he was probably detective, when I ran to cuff him and it would not let me.

Checking the arrest history of the individual that had reported me, you can see he was arrested by me for corruption. I believe this is his way as "getting back" at me. The reason for corruption (and I will make bold anything he has commited multiple times.) I had the full support of the majority of the officers on duty that he should get demoted. To get around the warrant that was made upon such detective, he first joined EMS to get an ambulance and then logged off the server and tried to relog to avoid such warrant.

With a lot of experience from being in gunfights with criminals, I understand that they like to make you think they are cooperating but then come out with their class 3's and shoot you down. With probably hundreds of deaths from being shot by criminals with class 3's (reinforced by the fact there was a PD raid going on, and I thought he was an associate of that) I decided to code red him, again for posing a direct threat to an officer by running them over and also the fact the first time they fleed the PD scene without any form of identification. Not one word was heard from him on the radio that he was a detective, and to cease fire. He waited for the situation to escalate and even after he got back up from being disorientated he did not identify himself till I had tried to cuff him.

What he had done on various occasions:

-Hit and Run
-Reckless Driving
-Fleeing and Eluding
-Corruption

The above are all related to the detective committing traffic offenses and would also back my argument that without a code red (and while I did not know it at the time) he would likely have commited another hit and run and flee the scene.

 

[Skojen]

Hello,

I appreciate you taking the time to make an appeal against your 6 Month PD Blacklist. The use of lethal force and when not to use it is generally a controversial topic.

As Stewart rightly said, "Policy should be clear in stating that using code red means shooting to stop. Shooting to stop means shooting to kill. As such, a code red if met should aim to kill the driver as quickly as possible, not shoot the vehicle to disable it."

Given how you have demonstrated that both passenger and driver was not killed - I assumed that they had both died due to their severe injuries.

I was moreover puzzled by your approach to how you incapacitated two individuals when their vehicle was idle - nevertheless, I now know both individuals did not die as a result of your judgement and were brought to justice from your actions.

I personally believe that further actions could had been taken aside from aiming and then shooting at the head area of the driver and passenger.

That is my own opinion and that was the main reason for the severity point infraction due to the target vehicle being idle at the time as other alternative methods of stopping the driver could had been utilized.

Since Xstewart was the one who issued your blacklist, I will leave the judgement to him whether or not your appeal should be accepted/denied (if possible).

I'm open to his judgement on this as he is of more seniority than me.

 

[StewartJames]

As this was a lawful and policy following code red, a 6 month blacklist seems out of place.
It is indeed difficult to stop a car when idle as a single officer.
I would find it appropriate to remove the blacklist and the points on record caused by this incident. Other records will remain

Contact someone in game to have it removed and reference this page.

 

[Skojen]

Your PD Blacklist Appeal has been Accepted.
Locked & Moved.