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Player Vs Staff
- Thread starter Damp Eggplant
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I doubt it, again as i said before, no one bases unless you are a big group or unless you base in a tiny apartment hidden away because you will be raided immediately. Lowering raid timer will just make this worse. Something needs to be done to encourage players to base more and to use better/less hidden away apartments as it gives the city life.
i have legit seen cm's unlock closed threads to add in an insult or an insulting meme and then close it again. i have seen a cm in a game reply to a player asking for help saying press alt 4 yet thats against the rules and players get punished for doing that. the sad truth is they are untouchable cause they are friends with the owner. keep in mind not all CMs are like this.
I do think there is a definite problem that is actually being touched here.
I have seen personally in the past that discussions I have posted regards to negative relations between staffs and players were taken down. There just seems to be some kind of reputation that is trying to be held up, but it is really just backfiring. There are definitely some staff that have never been a part of this problem, but there also seems to be other staff that seem to go out of their way to be mean-spirited and problematic. I want to bring up an example in regards to a recent situation with me and some staff members.
Two nights ago, I had an hour long discussion with TazDevil to try convincing him that I would be a good mentor. Throughout this meeting, he stated that I “had a bad reputation” among players, basically saying I am disliked. However, he was unable to tell me the names of who these members of monolith that disliked me were. He was able to tell me that my name sparked some friction with staff members when he brought it up in their chat. These staff members (who I only know some of as of the moment) basically recommended against me being a mentor. In reality, these staff members are almost positively confusing me with Rob Santoro ( I’m John Santoro, so you can see the similarity). Rob has had some tension between the staff members that recommended against me despite me having had no/little contact with these particular staff in and out of game.
the point of this example was not a case for being a mentor, rather an instance of bad relations between the common player and staff. First off, there should not be some kind of bad reputation labeled on players by the staff that can be seen with Rob Santoro. Staff should take only into consideration a bad reputation if it had to do with repeating offenses or severity of offenses, NOT because of how the player acts in sits. Situations simply would work out better if staff entered sits with player they have bad opinions about with a fresh and open mindset. To further go off of the example. It even shocked me more to know that not only had these specific staff labeled bad opinions to Rob as a player, but they had dragged me into the mix. The simple facts is that I am good player and I don’t stir up fights(contrary to what some might think the purpose of this passage is about). Staff definitely should not be forming bad opinions over players who are associated with players labeled with negative opinions. This just appears to be a very obvious source of tension between players and staff.
the purpose of this was not to crucify staff members or players but to rather show that there is a problem that Rob Santoro mentions. We can’t just say that there is no problem because that just worsens it’s. We must acknowledge and change.
I have seen personally in the past that discussions I have posted regards to negative relations between staffs and players were taken down. There just seems to be some kind of reputation that is trying to be held up, but it is really just backfiring. There are definitely some staff that have never been a part of this problem, but there also seems to be other staff that seem to go out of their way to be mean-spirited and problematic. I want to bring up an example in regards to a recent situation with me and some staff members.
Two nights ago, I had an hour long discussion with TazDevil to try convincing him that I would be a good mentor. Throughout this meeting, he stated that I “had a bad reputation” among players, basically saying I am disliked. However, he was unable to tell me the names of who these members of monolith that disliked me were. He was able to tell me that my name sparked some friction with staff members when he brought it up in their chat. These staff members (who I only know some of as of the moment) basically recommended against me being a mentor. In reality, these staff members are almost positively confusing me with Rob Santoro ( I’m John Santoro, so you can see the similarity). Rob has had some tension between the staff members that recommended against me despite me having had no/little contact with these particular staff in and out of game.
the point of this example was not a case for being a mentor, rather an instance of bad relations between the common player and staff. First off, there should not be some kind of bad reputation labeled on players by the staff that can be seen with Rob Santoro. Staff should take only into consideration a bad reputation if it had to do with repeating offenses or severity of offenses, NOT because of how the player acts in sits. Situations simply would work out better if staff entered sits with player they have bad opinions about with a fresh and open mindset. To further go off of the example. It even shocked me more to know that not only had these specific staff labeled bad opinions to Rob as a player, but they had dragged me into the mix. The simple facts is that I am good player and I don’t stir up fights(contrary to what some might think the purpose of this passage is about). Staff definitely should not be forming bad opinions over players who are associated with players labeled with negative opinions. This just appears to be a very obvious source of tension between players and staff.
the purpose of this was not to crucify staff members or players but to rather show that there is a problem that Rob Santoro mentions. We can’t just say that there is no problem because that just worsens it’s. We must acknowledge and change.
In regards to my previous post. There is even an example earlier in the replies to this discussion of an unnamed staff member using forum behavior to characterize if a player is in the right or wrong. Again, this is just not how to deal with the situation. I also have to point out that I am frankly surprised this whole thread stayed because in the past, any threads that have touched staff members in any ways were taken down immediately. I see people saying that is not true, but I think most of the player base know that it is. You know something is wrong when I am assuming that this post will last no longer than 10 min.
I'm not going to go into too much detail, but I do agree that in certain situations we staff members can go off at some people and me personally I have had multiple experiences where I was in the wrong with the way I reply to some ban appeals / reports. And these things need to change. I am acknowledging MY mistakes and will try to improve.
NachoLybrei,
I think we can all agree that we appreciated your honesty in this context. This is what we need to get better as a community: to reflect and change. It is not like every staff member who thinks they did something wrong needs to make a post like you, but I think your provide a good example for what staff members as a whole should reflect on when they do their duty.
I also have received responses full of arrogance and lack of professionalism, from a few staff members that also get reported a lot in the forums and even if CM or their higher ups give the reason to the acussing party, still, we get punished even though we were being respectful until a person with a little bit of power thinks that he can overpass his own rules.
So yeah, there's a big problem here and again, community management is not handling it at all.
So yeah, there's a big problem here and again, community management is not handling it at all.
As respectfully as I can say this...
All bullshit aside, there is an undeniable layer of dishonesty, censorship, and power-hungriness that exists within the staff team. It existed when I joined the staff team in April 2020. It existed throughout my entire duration of being on the staff team. It existed when I resigned in September 2020. It exists today.
In reading the replies that staff members have to this thread, their claims are either constructed in dishonesty or ignorance. I do not mean this, or anything else I say in this reply, as an insult. It is simply a criticism.
In terms of suggestions I have to offer, there are none. Through my experience as a staff member, what I observed as a staff member, and the anecdotes I've received from ex-staff members, it does not appear that Monolith is a place for suggestions. The idea of working with the community for an extended period of time just to leave little to no legacy is an absurd idea. But it makes sense when you understand that those who are responsible for lasting change are in a very close-knit group and are unlikely to accept input from others.
The process of development, management of the community, management of the staff team, and the relationship between the members of the staff team and those who play on the server are all FAR FROM PERFECT. In fact, they are the farthest possible point from perfect. It is likely to remain this way for the remaining lifetime of Monolith.
Do note that this entire reply is a criticism. I do not mean to insult any specific members of the staff team because from what I understand, many of you are doing a fantastic job. While I staffed/RP'd on Monolith, PMX, Balldrip, Holyhandgrenade, etc. made it an enjoyable experience. I can't say it wasn't fun while it lasted, because it definitely was. But the underlying issues in the community eventually reached an unfortunate climax in September 2020 and drove many members of the community away. I do appreciate having gotten to work with Monolith, but it became clearer and clearer up until the point of total clarity at the end of my staffing that it was no longer something I wanted to do.
I have no intention of rejoining the staff team. I have no intention of maintaining the same level of community involvement that I had in 2020. But I, along with the rest of the entire community, would like to see some change.
Goodbye.
All bullshit aside, there is an undeniable layer of dishonesty, censorship, and power-hungriness that exists within the staff team. It existed when I joined the staff team in April 2020. It existed throughout my entire duration of being on the staff team. It existed when I resigned in September 2020. It exists today.
In reading the replies that staff members have to this thread, their claims are either constructed in dishonesty or ignorance. I do not mean this, or anything else I say in this reply, as an insult. It is simply a criticism.
In terms of suggestions I have to offer, there are none. Through my experience as a staff member, what I observed as a staff member, and the anecdotes I've received from ex-staff members, it does not appear that Monolith is a place for suggestions. The idea of working with the community for an extended period of time just to leave little to no legacy is an absurd idea. But it makes sense when you understand that those who are responsible for lasting change are in a very close-knit group and are unlikely to accept input from others.
The process of development, management of the community, management of the staff team, and the relationship between the members of the staff team and those who play on the server are all FAR FROM PERFECT. In fact, they are the farthest possible point from perfect. It is likely to remain this way for the remaining lifetime of Monolith.
Do note that this entire reply is a criticism. I do not mean to insult any specific members of the staff team because from what I understand, many of you are doing a fantastic job. While I staffed/RP'd on Monolith, PMX, Balldrip, Holyhandgrenade, etc. made it an enjoyable experience. I can't say it wasn't fun while it lasted, because it definitely was. But the underlying issues in the community eventually reached an unfortunate climax in September 2020 and drove many members of the community away. I do appreciate having gotten to work with Monolith, but it became clearer and clearer up until the point of total clarity at the end of my staffing that it was no longer something I wanted to do.
I have no intention of rejoining the staff team. I have no intention of maintaining the same level of community involvement that I had in 2020. But I, along with the rest of the entire community, would like to see some change.
Goodbye.
D
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I was going to write a reply, but damn. This is pretty much everything I personally would have said. If I typed anything beyond this I could get myself in trouble so I'm not even going to bother. I will definitely say though that any sort of criticism is usually just met with complete backlash. I hope we can further voice concerns like this on this thread.
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I hear a lot of frustration but am aware this won't change a lot.
What sort of community and changes would you guys like to see?
I also personally think that development plays a large part in how the server is as it gives people something to look forward to and therefore feel they have a reason to be playing.
What sort of community and changes would you guys like to see?
I also personally think that development plays a large part in how the server is as it gives people something to look forward to and therefore feel they have a reason to be playing.
I can certainly agree that it is frustrating giving your time to a community that doesn't value you, yes. And I also agree that not one reply to this thread will change anything.
In terms of community changes, I'd like for community management and the development team to be open and honest with their processes and decisions. Anything below SD gets a very hazy image of what goes on with those big red nametags. I would like community management to be more involved with the playerbase. While I staffed, it was INCREDIBLY RARE to see anyone with a red name other than PMX occasionally. Has anyone ever heard Stuvi's voice? I remember Mark joining the server to participate in a PVP TDM event just to see how bad the hit-registration and tickrate were. I find it very hard to believe (more than likely, impossible) that you can effectively manage the community without having hardly any involvement with the players that you're supposed to provide a good experience to.
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I've thought about transparency before but will bring it up again at the next staff meeting with more vigour, thank you.
I'd like to add something, a point of view if you may.
I've been here since the start of Monolith, seen it go through many stages, highs and lows. I understand the frustration of the community based on actions that some CM members have committed and the way they have treated people on the forums and in-game. That's something we're working on as a collective to eliminate. We'll show that to you in the coming weeks and months.
I'd also like to add some stuff related to comments that have been made by specific community members in this thread:
(if I haven't replied to you, doesn't mean I didn't see it.)
Credence
I guess you're talking about me related to the ALT + F4 thing - it's simply a joke, and nothing came of it. If people are getting punished for this, I'll ensure that it's rectified. It's all about intent for something like this.
parkerx
Additionally, a note about the people who called to a lot of criticism in the past. A LOT of them are banned players who committed pretty awful acts such as Death threats and Doxing threats of our Staff Members and CM team. This won't fly. Not at all. I get it, this is meant to be a professional environment and we're meant to set an example to follow. We're working on that - but please don't expect a complete 100% success rate in these scenarios. This is a side thing for most of us, because we're passionate about this project. And with passion, comes the ability to get annoyed at people for trying to ruin that.
We need you guys to chime in with some input. Simply saying that we're "dishonest, censoring, etc." doesn't help, because we need to know exactly where we're at fault. Please provide that in the future and we'll work on those individually.
I see some comments saying the Development Team is not open. I'd like to counter this by stating that the Development Team is VERY open - I know this from running the team for 3 years, as well as Mark's tenure as Lead Developer. There were obviously a rough few months when he was getting adjusted. But our entire Development Flow and Process is available for you guys to view publicly on Notion. It shows what we're working on, and what we plan to work on in the future.
Finally, something else that has been on my mind since the construction of this thread - remember that we're only human, and for me, as an example - I commit to Monolith as a part of my spare time. I'm a CM, as well as the Ex-Lead Developer and currently a Developer for both Monolith RP and MonoSuite. I also work full time at a games studio, with 40h weeks. 2020 has left a big scar in my life for many reasons. One being, the obvious one, COVID-19. Everyone's on edge, everyone's down in the dumps because they can't do what they want to do in reality. It's not an excuse for actions, but I'd like you guys to try to consider the amount of time and effort that we try to put in, past our already hectic work-lives.
We're on a continuous work effort to improve. That's been the case since the start. Hopefully you'll all see that moving forward!
I've been here since the start of Monolith, seen it go through many stages, highs and lows. I understand the frustration of the community based on actions that some CM members have committed and the way they have treated people on the forums and in-game. That's something we're working on as a collective to eliminate. We'll show that to you in the coming weeks and months.
I'd also like to add some stuff related to comments that have been made by specific community members in this thread:
(if I haven't replied to you, doesn't mean I didn't see it.)
Credence
The comments will stop on these threads. That's for sure.Cred said:
I guess you're talking about me related to the ALT + F4 thing - it's simply a joke, and nothing came of it. If people are getting punished for this, I'll ensure that it's rectified. It's all about intent for something like this.
parkerx
I'd like to comment on the factor of censorship, as to which I do NOT endorse or ever partake in censoring anything that we do here. That's just simply not the case.parkerx said:
Honestly. With the post you've said, it just doesn't make sense. I get the frustration through these comments - but this is simply not a true claim.parkerx said:
And here you're just witch-hunting.parkerx said:
Additionally, a note about the people who called to a lot of criticism in the past. A LOT of them are banned players who committed pretty awful acts such as Death threats and Doxing threats of our Staff Members and CM team. This won't fly. Not at all. I get it, this is meant to be a professional environment and we're meant to set an example to follow. We're working on that - but please don't expect a complete 100% success rate in these scenarios. This is a side thing for most of us, because we're passionate about this project. And with passion, comes the ability to get annoyed at people for trying to ruin that.
We need you guys to chime in with some input. Simply saying that we're "dishonest, censoring, etc." doesn't help, because we need to know exactly where we're at fault. Please provide that in the future and we'll work on those individually.
I see some comments saying the Development Team is not open. I'd like to counter this by stating that the Development Team is VERY open - I know this from running the team for 3 years, as well as Mark's tenure as Lead Developer. There were obviously a rough few months when he was getting adjusted. But our entire Development Flow and Process is available for you guys to view publicly on Notion. It shows what we're working on, and what we plan to work on in the future.
Finally, something else that has been on my mind since the construction of this thread - remember that we're only human, and for me, as an example - I commit to Monolith as a part of my spare time. I'm a CM, as well as the Ex-Lead Developer and currently a Developer for both Monolith RP and MonoSuite. I also work full time at a games studio, with 40h weeks. 2020 has left a big scar in my life for many reasons. One being, the obvious one, COVID-19. Everyone's on edge, everyone's down in the dumps because they can't do what they want to do in reality. It's not an excuse for actions, but I'd like you guys to try to consider the amount of time and effort that we try to put in, past our already hectic work-lives.
We're on a continuous work effort to improve. That's been the case since the start. Hopefully you'll all see that moving forward!
I will admit that it is not only staff members making comments, it is also some of the playerbase. But I will most-definitely stand by my word in the claim I made. Defenses of community management have included (in paraphrase of course) "they are held accountable by Gurrazor", "we don't remove players from the community without valid reason", etc. Some have suggested that players make staff reports. I don't think that we should pretend that community management is not untouchable. I'm sure there have been instances where Gurrazor may have said, "Hey Stuvi, maybe you shouldn't make fun of this guy who has a learning disability and didn't use proper punctuation in his staff application" or "Hey Tj, you acted rather rash in this decision because your emotions got the best of you, you shouldn't do it again". But because you guys own and manage the community, it does make sense to me that you're able to behave the way that you wish. I'm simply stating that it would be a better place if you set higher standards on yourself.
This right here is just completely false. Mark, the lead developer of Monolith, does not have open DM's on Discord. You, former lead developer and current developer, do not have your DM's open on Discord. One of the most heartbreaking things I remember from the staff meetings was hearing 40 suggestions regarding development and then Mark denying and shutting down every single one and then eventually saying "this is one we might be able to do", and then not doing it. Felt like a huge waste of time and really discouraged me (and probably other staff members) from sharing their ideas. Sil, from what I understand, was really good at discussing possible gamemode features/changes with players, and if an idea was not feasible, he would explain exactly why. Sil was very open to hear suggestions and it was great to talk to him from time to time.
There's no debating the fact that what drives the majority of long-term players away from Monolith is the management of the community. I don't believe that there's any room to debate this whatsoever. Sure, some players get bored and whatnot. But, not one person I've talked to out of the staff team has a positive opinion of the way your community is managed. Your poor management is almost entirely due to the fact that you don't understand the playerbase because you have little interaction with them. Fixing this disconnect would make things better.
But to speak on your dishonesty and lack of transparency, you and I both know a few instances of what we're saying I'm sure. With two particular staff demotions off the top of my head, there was a very vague reason for one of them, and for the other, it was complete dishonesty. I can understand for the first demotion that you may want to keep that information private out of respect for the individual who was demoted, but for the second, you were "open" in the sense that you gave a reason, but it gave a very one-sided and untrue depiction of the "incident" I think you called it.
It makes total sense to me that you aren't going to dedicate much time to Monolith because you're a whole ass man with a full-time job and everything lol. But what I cannot understand is the hypocrisy in this statement. I agree that COVID has been absolutely relentless and I do sympathize with you in that sense. The added stress from COVID and other pressures in life will make people reactive. I do not think it's fair to say that "we're only human" and recognize that mistakes and mishaps happen along the road when you are unable to have even some leniency with the actions and behaviors of others. It is true that as humans, of course, we get frustrated and we say things that are a little too honest to handle sometimes (more than ever now than in our entire lifetimes). But, I do not believe that in any way that one conversation/disagreement should lead to the demotion of a staff member who has worked for free for an extended period of time for you. This is the case in BOTH demotions I was previously referring to. It is in every way completely incomprehensible that someone would let one disagreement invalidate every good thing they have done for you.
One more final criticism that I'd like to give while I'm here, THANK YOUR STAFF MEMBERS. Make them feel appreciated. They volunteer countless hours into your community and deserve recognition. I have discussed this issue with TOO MANY ex-staff members. Some who have put literal years into this place and felt unappreciated at the end of their time here. When the podcasts and such were a problem, I remember a few announcements telling everyone they were doing a good job, but there is little to no personalization to these messages. While I was an admin, I would say something like "Shit bro, you handled all those reports by yourself for the last 2 hours? Good shit man." or DMing fellow admins or moderators saying "Really appreciate how you handled x situation, you've got potential here". Sending a generalized announcement is a good step in the right direction and this shouldn't stop, but more personalized recognition is more than deserved by some of the members of your team.
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