Police Department Discussion

[FreeSpy]

I'm curious how you come to this conclusion? This is anecdotal, but from my side it seems pretty even usually

The fact that I've been RDM'd more, I've seen more cops combat heal with medics (though not as recent, cuz i've just stopped taking part in raids). I've been abused more by cops, like, overall I've had shit experience with cops breaking fearRP, etc, like.

Tow truck drivers fuck around and steal cars, I get batted by cops for the littlest of things, tazed for the littlest of things, get overpriced tickets from multiple officers for destro

Also yeah overall civies would be breaking rules more since civi v civi v cop and more interactions but if we look at per scenario, from what I've personally seen, cops seem to break more rules, and act a bit toxic (as in just being dickheads overall, there isnt really any example for this other than acting like cunts, not attitude or anything, but you get what I mean)

think you somehow missed the entire point of the thread: That the fact that neither side trust the other even a small amount and that Stewart is asking/suggesting solutions to that issue.

No, I got the point. The point was to try and fix the fact that neither side trust eachother, but, as we see in real life, that doesnt happen, atleast not everyone will, and there isn't a way to fix this when everyone commits crimes. It's natural that people don't trust cops, or eachother for that fact.
I'm putting it in a perspective where it's easier to understand - Cops are against criminals, and criminals are against cops. We can't trust our enemy, because they don't have our best interest at heart. I want to make cash, cops want to stop me.
I want to raid, cops want to stop me.
Obviously I'm not gonna trust cops when they smash their towtrucks into my rear and then bat me and arrest me.

Cops aren't trusted for those reasons and because they're incompetent. Overreactive, and overall, and i am going to repeat myself, a nuisance to deal with, and until that's fixed the relationship will be extremely cold.

 

[Tye]

Do you believe this is something that can be changed through the player base, or does it have to come from development changes?
To be more specific, a lot of prices/cost for things are set by what other people are willing to pay for them. Take for example: Food. There are absolutely levers that the devs can use to impact food profitability (ingredient cost, cooking time [rent], availability/quality of non-cooked food), but ultimately the price of the final product is set by players.

As for engagement, I mean, part of me just wants to say "Be the change you want to see in the world" and "Seek out the passive RP, and encourage others to do the same", but I recognize that isn't exactly a perfect way of doing it, but outside of encouragement of actually setting things up (through profitability and such), I don't know how else to encourage it. Personally I've been trying to push my own RP regardless of profit through a wine shop. Its RP for RP's sake (since wine offers nothing but being drunk), which is hard for me to ask other people to do, but if you have the cash to spare I encourage anyone reading to consider trying it yourself. Not everything has to be profitable to be fun.

I get not everything has to be profitable for me it is the time it takes, it needs to come from player base and dev changes.

 

[Deleted member 12627]

Do you believe this is something that can be changed through the player base, or does it have to come from development changes?
To be more specific, a lot of prices/cost for things are set by what other people are willing to pay for them. Take for example: Food. There are absolutely levers that the devs can use to impact food profitability (ingredient cost, cooking time [rent], availability/quality of non-cooked food), but ultimately the price of the final product is set by players.

As for engagement, I mean, part of me just wants to say "Be the change you want to see in the world" and "Seek out the passive RP, and encourage others to do the same", but I recognize that isn't exactly a perfect way of doing it, but outside of encouragement of actually setting things up (through profitability and such), I don't know how else to encourage it. Personally I've been trying to push my own RP regardless of profit through a wine shop. Its RP for RP's sake (since wine offers nothing but being drunk), which is hard for me to ask other people to do, but if you have the cash to spare I encourage anyone reading to consider trying it yourself. Not everything has to be profitable to be fun.

A little off topic, but I think passive RP as a whole was kind of nerfed when the new cooking system was put in place. We won’t talk about that though.

The problem I see at hand is that police officers seem to think slightly tapping anything warrants you being lit up by the entire dept.

I don’t really see there being a fix to this except more staff intervention, or people recording more so they can show context that led up to being shot at by the cops. Sadly most people do not have NASA PC’s like I do, not everyone can record literally everything meaning cops will get away with it 80% of the time.


So the thing about civilians shooting cops so frequently for such little reason... this also is an aftermath of the 8 minute timer sadly. The 8 minute timer makes both civilians and cops have a PTSD effect anytime they are interacting within a dangerous situation with each other.

Here is an example:
Civilian - has pistol without license, equips it in public and notices a cop sees him brandishing in public.

Cop - sees civilian brandish firearm in public and wants to check him for a license, but doesn’t want to get in a firefight.

So, obviously neither side wants this to go bad. The civilian wants a simple “listen I was just checking my gun and equipping it” and the cop leaves. That obviously won’t happen because the cop is trying to RP his job and needs to check if he is licensed. This is where the 8 minute timer changes everything.

The civilian is thinking - it’s one cop I can just shoot him because if he finds out I don’t have a license I’m fucked. It’s 1 cop anyways, I’m going to kill him.

The cop - I am going to ask over radio for a license check instead of looking myself, while I either have my gun on safe or have it pointed at the civilian so he doesn’t shoot me.

It’s power gaming in both scenarios and is a bi-product of the death timer.

 

[StewartJames]

A little off topic, but I think passive RP as a whole was kind of nerfed when the new cooking system was put in place. We won’t talk about that though.

The problem I see at hand is that police officers seem to think slightly tapping anything warrants you being lit up by the entire dept.

I don’t really see there being a fix to this except more staff intervention, or people recording more so they can show context that led up to being shot at by the cops. Sadly most people do not have NASA PC’s like I do, not everyone can record literally everything meaning cops will get away with it 80% of the time.


So the thing about civilians shooting cops so frequently for such little reason... this also is an aftermath of the 8 minute timer sadly. The 8 minute timer makes both civilians and cops have a PTSD effect anytime they are interacting within a dangerous situation with each other.

Here is an example:
Civilian - has pistol without license, equips it in public and notices a cop sees him brandishing in public.

Cop - sees civilian brandish firearm in public and wants to check him for a license, but doesn’t want to get in a firefight.

So, obviously neither side wants this to go bad. The civilian wants a simple “listen I was just checking my gun and equipping it” and the cop leaves. That obviously won’t happen because the cop is trying to RP his job and needs to check if he is licensed. This is where the 8 minute timer changes everything.

The civilian is thinking - it’s one cop I can just shoot him because if he finds out I don’t have a license I’m fucked. It’s 1 cop anyways, I’m going to kill him.

The cop - I am going to ask over radio for a license check instead of looking myself, while I either have my gun on safe or have it pointed at the civilian so he doesn’t shoot me.

It’s power gaming in both scenarios and is a bi-product of the death timer.

I will make a suggestion shortly about the 8 minute. Sounds like lowering the stakes will relax people and let them rp a bit more even if they are just joking

 

[Deleted member 12627]

I will make a suggestion shortly about the 8 minute. Sounds like lowering the stakes will relax people and let them rp a bit more even if they are just joking

That’s exactly what the community has been asking for ever since it came in. It makes everyone uneasy.

 

[Arroyo]

I will make a suggestion shortly about the 8 minute. Sounds like lowering the stakes will relax people and let them rp a bit more even if they are just joking

Did you know there is a set group of people who will disorientate you and then wait for you to wake up just to put someone in an 8 min death timer. This just angers people and create toxic environments. That’s where competition comes into play aswell because people then go to PD and kill them

 

[Foxtrot0295]

The main problem I notice when playing as a cop is that people escalate the situation for literally no reason which leads to a shootout, it almost feels like there is no cop fear due to "police presence". Cop baiting and other mingy tactics to get into shootings with the police are at an all time high, and everyday more and more people are getting away with it.

It stems from a "having nothing to lose" view. These people usually have loaded banks with class 3's and well over hundreds of thousands of dollars so they get bored and result in provoking cops and doing other under the radar tactics that don't break any rules in order to provoke a shooting. Not to mention the fact that you really don't lose much from killing a cop and getting caught for serious crimes. I understand this isn't only a problem from the citizen side but police as well, however I notice that this is usually where the problem stems from in my experience as playing as MPD.

Suggestion: Perhaps make is so that you can be fined and arrested for crimes.
For example: Citizen murder Officer and gets caught. - Citizen faces 60 minutes in jail as well as $10,000 fine.

Suggestion: Maybe give government official jobs a life alert?

 

[TheLoser27]

I will make a suggestion shortly about the 8 minute. Sounds like lowering the stakes will relax people and let them rp a bit more even if they are just joking

About that 8 min timer, does it count towards nlr? or does nlr start after the 8 min timer? Because as it stands when you get the 8 min timer the situation once you respawn is most likely over. and now you waited 8 mins to respawn and then another 10 mins? or do you wait 2 more mins for nlr??

 

[Arroyo]

About that 8 min timer, does it count towards nlr? or does nlr start after the 8 min timer? Because as it stands when you get the 8 min timer the situation once you respawn is most likely over. and now you waited 8 mins to respawn and then another 10 mins? or do you wait 2 more mins for nlr??

Your new life starts when you respawn, so 10 minutes after.

 

[Deleted member 12627]

Did you know there is a set group of people who will disorientate you and then wait for you to wake up just to put someone in an 8 min death timer. This just angers people and create toxic environments. That’s where competition comes into play aswell because people then go to PD and kill them

I know this is an issue because I do it lol, if I run over someone I have KOS on I wait for them to get up and dome them.

 

[FreeSpy]

The main problem I notice when playing as a cop is that people escalate the situation for literally no reason which leads to a shootout, it almost feels like there is no cop fear due to "police presence". Cop baiting and other mingy tactics to get into shootings with the police are at an all time high, and everyday more and more people are getting away with it.

It stems from a "having nothing to lose" view. These people usually have loaded banks with class 3's and well over hundreds of thousands of dollars so they get bored and result in provoking cops and doing other under the radar tactics that don't break any rules in order to provoke a shooting. Not to mention the fact that you really don't lose much from killing a cop and getting caught for serious crimes. I understand this isn't only a problem from the citizen side but police as well, however I notice that this is usually where the problem stems from in my experience as playing as MPD.

Suggestion: Perhaps make is so that you can be fined and arrested for crimes.
For example: Citizen murder Officer and gets caught. - Citizen faces 60 minutes in jail as well as $10,000 fine.

Suggestion: Maybe give government official jobs a life alert?

I gotta disagree here.

Yes, people do that, but so do cops. I've been shot at for the littlest of reasons, and cops do not know what trigger discipline is (I've even had cops say they'll shoot up anything in a PD raid before)

arresting someone for murder with 60 minutes is also really dumb. Why put in someone for an hour in general other than to force a jailbreak or a disconnect?

Obviously, when you play this game long enough you will have the 'I got nothin to lose view.' which, by the way, the cops also have that view, since guns are cheap as fuck and deal a tonne of damage. Why would I care about a class 3 which i can ge tback in 2 coke batches like, it doens't matter to me that much if i lose my guns because I can make them and I can also buy them. There's no point in caring lol.

Killing a cop for a valid reason shouldn't be more punishable as it is. You already get fucked over by the cops as a criminal, so idk why you think we should fuck the criminals up more.

 

[Arthgallo Trefynwy]

LATE TO THE PARTY BUT:

C) There is not currently any guidance on what reasonable suspicion constitutes.

This is a very big problem on both the PD's part and the player's part. I've repeatedly been shot in the face for talking to a civilian as a detective because they thought I was a narc, not in situations where FTVL would be in play.

Possible steps forward could include
A) Making changes to the gun economy so individuals do not ride around armed like warlords.

I feel that even if you did enforce this you would still get the asshats that call in their buddys during a traffic stop, that roll up, cap the cop, blow up their car and drive off.
Without seriously editing how RP works I'm not sure this would work.

B) Relaxing rules around police officers so that reasonable suspicion AT THE TIME can be used as justification, as is with real life.
D) Altering the fearrp rule so cops can actually force a conversation with civilians at gunpoint.
E) Through development, adding more less lethal tools such as cameras, tracking devices or in-car deployable spikes to reduce the NEED to kill.

This requires the player base to become WAY less trigger happy. Usually if someone is evading the PD enough that you need to track them down, or spike them, they're carrying two honey badgers. They're going to open fire if they think the PD is going to arrest them. Maybe make this fall under FTVL/NITRP? Traffic stops/frisks tend to end up as cop murders more often than not because whoever's driving the car doesn't want to end up prison for 20 minutes and lose their pot - while in some situations IRL the perp would pull a gun, 9/10 they're either not going to cap the officer, they're not going to have ungodly aim/hitreg playing in their favor, and they're not going to suddenly produce a shotgun from the ether.

F) Creating systems that allow civilians to expect lessened consequences for their actions if they are compliant.

You'd need a whitelist for this.


I think at the end of the day a lot of this stems from the playerbase having waaaaay too much of a leverage in gear, the knowledge that whatever they do will likely be found favorable in a sit, and that they can regain whatever they lose pretty fecking quickly. This all rolls together to a large amount of players that, frankly, don't give a shit about the PD unless they're being nosy. Is this lack of intent to RP? In a lot of cases, yes. I don't know how you fix that without leveling the playing field.
Adjudication systems wouldn't lead to compliance - we've all been in trials for civic cases that end with someone storming the courtroom and killing everyone in the room, because that one suspect who had pot on them doesn't want to sit in jail for 20 minutes.