Report - RDM & FailRP by Afash

[Barry Finch]

Your Steam Name: powEnvy.YT
Your Steam ID: STEAM_0:0:59620406
Your Character Name (If Applicable): Barry Finch

Admin being reported( Tag by writing @ before their forum name) @Afash

Reason for Report: Negotiated our hostage situation at the L2 Bank and completely disregarded rules of negotiation and did not value the life of the hostage. Demands made by (us) hostage takers were not fulfilled at all, as verified by @Broken who was away from scene watching the police's actions. When we demanded barricades be moved, we were assured they were. However broken verified over radio that the barricades were NOT being moved. We also told the police the hostage would be escorted with us to our vehicle, and once we entered our car would then be left on the road to be recovered by police. Afash refused this, although it IS reasonable demand as told to me by broken and @Thegamingshain who reviewed the footage with me after the situation (and thus recommended I make this report). Leaving the hostage in the bank would thus leave us vulnerable to the police backing out and immediately shooting/arresting us. We eventually conceded this, because we realized our negotiator was not going to value the hostages life, and instead searched for tension as an excuse to call off negotiations. Later on we asked for a bearcat, as even though the police said they were raising the barricades they really weren't and our escape vehicle (broken) could not reach us. We received the bearcat, and as we loaded up the police called off negotiations and executed us like dogs. They then proceeded to laugh and humiliate us and gave us 60 years for non-violent crime. I asked Afash why they called off negotiations and I was met with "Because you suck"

This is frustrating to me and my fellow heist members because we spent a little over an hour planning out the specifics, we had an elaborate escape plan with multiple bait cars set up at the lake so we could confuse the police about where the money was headed. All of this potential RP was stripped because of a staff member not valuing the life of a hostage (who did end up dying) and failing to follow hostage guidelines of negotiations.

"In a hostage situation, you are obligated to value the life of the hostage and begin negotiations. A superior Law Enforcement Officer/Lead Negotiator may, however, call off negotiations at any time if they are not being successful. This includes, but it is not limited to the hostage takers not complying with negotiation terms, constantly threatening law enforcement or refusing to negotiate." I plead for Afash to tell my how the negotiations were not successful. I also ask for him to explain how he valued the life of the hostage by lying about all reasonable demands. The best way for them to save the hostage would have been to listen to our basic demands of free passage. Free passage is all we asked for.

Final Note: I've never once thought I'd find myself reporting someone on here, but when Monolith has these great tools to encourage RP instead of FragRP it's disheartening to see players with power over situations & players use that to force themselves into a victory every time. If we had simply opted for the cheap and less thoughtful route of fragging an entire police department for the bank, we may have succeeded. I know the player being reported and others may try and claim "Police need not be truthful", I think with being called out for lying and still continuing to do so, they gave up hostage value and tried to coerce us into violence so they could resume FragRP.

Time of Occurrence: 8:00 PM CST 05/27/2021
Evidence to support your claim:

Additional members involved/witnessing: @Broken @Frank Saints @Thegamingshain @Jamal Jackson
Read, understood and followed staff report rules?: Yes

 

[Afash]

Dear @Barry Finch,

I understand why you would make this report, still in my opinion it wasn't my complete fault why your armed robbery went unsuccessful. Please allow me to address some important points.

1. Your video only shows 50% of the whole situation, which took more than 20 mins.
2. I was the first one on scene and the Chief + Asst. chief ordered me to start the negotiation with you and see your demands.
3. in the unrecorded part of the situation, I assured you that I only want the hostage and I don't care about the robbery. My main objective from the start was to keep the hostage inside the bank.
4. Your first demands were the following (starting from the start of the situation to the end):
   1. Remove the spikes in front of the bank.
   2. Don't clamp any car around the bank. (There were no cars around, which clearly shows you didn't spend an hour planning this raid as you claim
      "we spent a little over an hour planning out the specifics".
   3. Remove the barricade around the bank.
   4. You want clear passage to leave the bank.
   5. You want all cops in front of the bank to go and move from taking cover behind their cars.
   6. You want the SWAT Bearcat to go away from the gas station.
   7. You want the barricade at the mine side to be removed.
   8. Then, you changed plans and want a clear passage to the prison.
   9. You wanted to take the hostage with you first, but I denied that. Then we agreed to let the hostage inside.
5. All the demands above were fulfilled by me and I passed it to the command post led by the Chief and the Asst. Chief in addition to the SWAT team who were managing the operation and the tactical approach to be used. In exchange of all your demands is to let the hostage stay inside the bank when you leave.

A negotiation is not a one side process and I told you that. I told you I will make all your demands in exchange of the hostage only staying in the bank in which you agreed at the end of the negotiations. Suddenly, after you enter the Bearcat you changed the agreement and decided to take the hostage with you which is not according to our agreement and it showed me that you are not to be trusted if the hostage was to be taken.

[5.2.1.8]... A superior Law Enforcement Officer/Lead Negotiator may, however, call off negotiations at any time if they are not being successful. This includes, but it is not limited to the hostage takers not complying with negotiation terms

I immediately called off negotiations the moment you were instructing to put the hostage in the Bearcat.

Last but not least, I tried my best to handle the situation according to Police policy. The only thing which is not according to it is that I am a SSgt, which in this situation I shouldn't have negotiated as it's a level 3 hostage situation and only to be led by the SWAT commander or the Chief / Asst. Chief of the police, however, I aksed for them to take over moments after the situation started on the radio and they instructed me to continue the negotiations.

I wish you a nice day,

Afash

 

[StewartJames]

I'm putting my two cents in from the side of police command.

Hostage negotiation is made to buy time or situation to allow the hostage to be separated from the hostage takers, and then for the hostage takers to be remanded in custody as efficiently and safely as possible.

I would question why the chief was not doing negotiations to avoid a communications bottleneck as we saw here.

I would also suggest the reason the Chief negotiates is that it means he can give a clear fire/Fahrenheit order once he is sure with his own eyes that the hostage is safe.

What happened here is the opposite of that.

"Calling off" negotiations is a somewhat outdated and unspecified idea. The role of the force is not to engage in a gentlemanly deal, but instead to safely arrest criminals and protect life. Had the hostage exited, this would have been fine.

My suggestion for those in charge of planning would be that you should allow the hostage takers to exit with the hostage, provide the truck with the engine off, and take precision shots against the hostage takers in unison in this situation.

This didn't happen. I'm not entirely sure what DID happen.

Afash here ought to consider the safety of the hostage as paramount, and the hostage takers as secondary.

However, he is not the only one to blame. I am told there was both a chief and assistant chief on duty at the time, and I strongly question the role they played here, and the reasons for an abject lack of command or initiative to secure this situation safely.

I will further investigate the failings of the duty commanders in this situation.

 

[ArcticSalad]

Hi there,
Some how I'm being blamed in a report against a staff member involving a decision I didn't make, so here I am.

I was the police chief on duty at the time. When the call came in for a hostage situation, I was on scene at a situation in Layer 1 that demanded my attention. I wrapped up the situation as quickly as I could and began responding to the bank on Layer 2. By this point officers, including Afash, were already on scene and the hostage takers were demanding we negotiate. Due to the fact I was still a long way out (I was responding in a 2020 explorer), I authorized Afash to begin the negotiations. Afash has always been an exemplary officer to work with and is currently a member of the Police Supervisors team. I trusted that he would be able to handle the negotiations and I stand by my decision.

Afash's radio communication was for the most part solid, I only think the radio communication from him could have been a bit better towards the end of the situation so that I, myself, could made an informed decision on how to proceed. The situation wasn't perfect but I believe Afash did his very best given the circumstances at hand. My number one priority is to ensure the safety of the hostage. I will not under any circumstance allow for the hostage to be placed into a situation where the hostage takers have complete control. From my understanding of the situation, despite meeting their demands the hostage takers went back on their word to leave the hostage and attempted to flee with the hostage in their vehicle. This action would have given the hostage takers complete control and placed the hostage into an incredibly dangerous situation. Although I can't speak on how well executed the tactical solution was since the perspective in the video is mostly obstructed by the Bearcat, it is clear that negotiations had broken down due to the actions of the hostage takers.

 

[Barry Finch]

Responding to @Afash

I understand and appreciate the well written response. I hope it is clear enough that my recording length is set to 10 minutes, however I found this to be plenty. If you believe there is something missing, by all means publish your own footage. From the beginning of the video we are at the current point of the understanding that you are roleplaying in good faith. Frankly the earlier minutes is our group expressing surprise that we weren't just gunned down along with the hostage immediately which we've had problems with in the past.

"This includes, but it is not limited to the hostage takers not complying with negotiation terms"

The rule guiding the procedure for LE to end negotiations is exactly what you were doing to us- you acted in poor faith and that is visible in the video. No barricades were moved, no free passage was granted. You had every road blocked, and did not value the life of the hostage. I ask you to try and refute me on this instead of listing all the demands that were also never met. Aside from the bearcat, which was immediately blown up.

Responding to @ArcticSalad

The hostage was not being "put into a vehicle". Nor ordered to enter the vehicle. Passenger in the bearcat suggested it, but was ignored by the players still leading the interior bank actions. If you listen to the radio at 8:40 in the video, it is clear that with voice chat delay it is almost impossible for my team to announce them calling off negotiations after hearing and processing what the passenger in the bearcat said. Negotiations had been breaking down the entire time due to Afash refusing all of our demands while putting on a facade that he is. We knew of this, and because we made it clear that we knew of this to the PD, Afash still leaning into the fact that they were being truthful is an outright wreckless move in protecting the hostages life.

 

[Thanewolfe]

Under review.

 

[Thanewolfe]

Thank you for your report @Barry Finch,

I will only be commenting objectively about Afash with regards to staff policy & server rules. I will not comment on tactics, procedure, psychology or other related aspects in roleplay.

Negotiations are a two way street, as such demands go both ways. Also, I realize you may not want to hear this, but Police are not obligated to be truthful during negotiations. The ultimate goal is to defuse a life-threatening situation and hopefully achieve a peaceful resolution, deception is a viable option for a negotiator.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Rules taken into consideration:

1. In a hostage situation, you are obligated to value the life of the hostage and begin negotiations. A superior Law Enforcement Officer/Lead Negotiator may, however, call off negotiations at any time if they are not being successful. This includes, but it is not limited to the hostage takers not complying with negotiation terms, constantly threatening law enforcement or refusing to negotiate.

From this video I can see that Afash did in fact value the life of the hostage, he complied with several demands as shown in the video and did so to the best of his ability in his current position / rank.

As for calling off negotiations, you guys were out in the open - from what I can tell it looks like they saw an opportunity to get a shot off and end the situation then and there. In hindsight, the situation did not go smoothly, however, as for whether or not any rules were violated (both internally and externally) I can say with absolute certainty that Afash did not break any rules.

Staff report denied.