Staff Report / Blacklist Appeal

[Violence]

Your Steam Name: Violence
Your Steam ID: 76561198100914871 / STEAM_0:1:70324571
Your Character Name (If Applicable): Jack White

Admin being reported: @Predictable

Reason for Report:

Situation:

I come on to find out that we're in a gang war situation, myself and the rest of the "William's Street" Organisation were attempting to chase 2 vehicles a BRZ & Mitsubishi. I managed to follow both to the beach area at Freddy's Bakery, I proceed to get out of the vehicle and verbally shout at the BRZ to exit the vehicle or be killed, he proceeds to drive off so I proceed to shoot my weapon at his vehicle. At this point I am reloading and the BRZ has driven to the underpass and gone towards the casino, I am still out on foot with the Mitsubishi that I was also following. Whilst I was shooting at the BRZ a player from the Mitsubishi proceeds to exit his vehicle and run to the front end, he then crouch's behind the vehicle and so I run round the side of it and seem him crouching in his inventory. I proceed to shoot him and run back to my vehicle where I get squashed by my tyres on my Lamborghini.

During the Sit:

I get teleported by Predictable to the sit, where I meet him & a player reporting me (The person reporting me is not the same person who I killed, he witnessed it from inside the Mitsubishi). I get told I am being reported for RDM for killing the player who exited his vehicle and proceeded to run behind it to get cover from me. I then defend myself saying that at the time I believed he was in league with the BRZ and was attempting to gain cover from me whilst crouching to pull out a weapon and to shoot me. The player who was reporting me then says that he was exiting the vehicle to get cover from the gunfight, I then suggested that he would of been much more safer in the vehicle then to go through the whole process of exiting the vehicle and hiding behind it so face me. During the sit I requested video evidence from either Predictable or the reporting party, I was told "Yea gimme a sec I'll get it". A minute later I was told by the reporting party that the video was deleted by the player I killed and that Predictable already saw it so it's no longer necessary. Predictable then came to the conclusion that I had committed RDM however we decided a Weapons Blacklist was more acceptable then a 2 Day Ban (Which I agreed to).

Present Day:

Rules pointed out:

1. You must correctly follow FearRP when a situation calls for it, such as when you are being held at gunpoint. Roleplay should reflect on how you would approach a similar situation in real-life.

Whilst I was shooting at the vehicle that failed to follow my orders, the reporting player exited the other vehicle, ran around the side of the vehicle and crouched behind the vehicle facing my direction. I believe that in this situation the player would have been more safe to remain inside his vehicle instead of going through the process of exiting, running & crouching for cover.

1. You must abide by realistic roleplay measures; breaking this rule is known as FailRP. If something you are doing is illogical in a real life situation, then you can’t do it on the server.

Again, referring to the fact that it was a illogical decision for the player to exit the vehicle during an active gunfight and that the player was most likely exiting the vehicle and crouching to gain cover from myself to pull out a weapon and to attempt to kill me.

1. You may not kill or knock out players without a valid In-Character reason.

• KoS is valid if you have a valid reason to hurt/eliminate somebody; the reason however can't be from your previous death. Make sure to obey our Player versus Player and criminal rules!

So from these two rules I believe that I had the right to "hurt/eliminate" the reporting player because I was scared for my life as I had no vision on the player behind the car and so to my knowledge he could have been equipping a gun with an attempt on my life". Which during the admin sit, I used this however I didn't rely on rules or clarifications to support this I just simply stated why I killed the player. So the main reason for me to kill the player was that "During an active gunfight, the player decides to take advantage cover against me whilst leaving the safety of his vehicle, therefore I believed he was attempting to reach for a weapon and to kill me therefore I took lethal action against that player".


So the fact that because the player decided to exit his vehicle, run behind it and crouch and then be in his inventory I assumed that he was going to kill me and based on the situation, both cars were driving together, I've proceeded to shoot at one of the vehicles and so he get's out and was most likely going to attempt to kill me which is why I "feared for my life" and removed the player from the situation. Although I do understand from their point, I could have possibly said "get out of cover from the vehicle, or simply put your hands up" however during a gunfight it's pretty hard to say something whilst shooting and witnessing somebody who could possibly take your life.
Time of Occurrence: 01/05/2019 - 19:00 - 21:00
Evidence to support your claim: N/A - As per my description I had no video evidence from my side and the opposing side deleted their evidence during the admin sit.
Additional members involved/witnessing: @Gregg

I would like to make it clear that at the time I accepted the punishment and did not think to make it any worse by making myself look like a "complainer / Rebel" against staff decisions, I didn't want to put another bad reputation on my name. I would also like to say that I'm making this based on what others have told me, that they have suggested I at least get an opinion from someone on the situation because this made me lose my Mentor rank which they believe I should have kept based on this situation. The last thing is that now I feel like the person who got out of the car is more in the wrong then I am and actually caused the situation to happen by doing what he did, in some way he failed to value his life but technically didn't fully break a FearRP.

 

[Predictable]

Allow me to unpack and give my perspective on this issue that could have been avoided altogether through various means, with the simplest one being how you describe that they should have just left. Regarding the video that was provided to me, it was sufficient in its purpose of providing concrete evidence and insight into the events that occurred; it showed what actually took place, which consisted of your correct anecdote, but it did not support your assumption that they were equipping weapons to harm you or that you made an attempt to give them commands or demands of some sort. This absence of communication made the overlooked act of putting the other party under FearRP completely null and void to begin with, however you claim that it was too difficult and risky for the situation you were presently in so you did not focus on it. This is where I would bring in your quote of the rules, "Roleplay should reflect on how you would approach a similar situation in real-life," (as well as having a "valid reason to hurt/eliminate somebody") and given its non-limiting nature I would have naturally agreed with you and dismissed the entire situation as a simple misunderstanding. Unfortunately, the evidence I was provided -- which I apologize for not being able to show you, however in my completely honest opinion I believe it was taken down due to the fact that it showed potential metagaming activity, which I verbally warned the reporting party for and directed them to strictly use Monolith's official Discord server -- forced me to declare that they were not, in fact, preparing to engage you, and that while communication with them would have been an inconvenience, it was not out of the question. I stand by your observation that it would have been wiser for them to avoid stopping near an active situation in the first place but, in all simplicity, two wrongs don't make a right. Ultimately, this situation was one that I derived my judgement from technicality rather than common sense despite the fact that the latter would be more reasonable in my opinion, but it is more responsible and factually-sound to argue a claim utilizing rules to substantiate said claim versus using realistic actions, logic, and so forth. I maintain that my judgement was in fact fair and correctly-issued, and it was not my intention to punish you harshly or excessively. I appreciate your concern for the judgement and its impact on your record, "reputation," and rank; however, I do not believe the outcome warranted your demotion, instead it was never my choice and rather it was a matter of formal protocol. If I had the ability to, I would veto that decision since the subject in question was one that walked a very fine line in a gray area that you did not intend to violate. Nonetheless, as I have mentioned this countless times before: I may only attend to my duties and accomplish them in a satisfactory manner by acting upon actions and evidence, not intent.

 

[Violence]

Allow me to unpack and give my perspective on this issue that could have been avoided altogether through various means, with the simplest one being how you describe that they should have just left. Regarding the video that was provided to me, it was sufficient in its purpose of providing concrete evidence and insight into the events that occurred; it showed what actually took place, which consisted of your correct anecdote, but it did not support your assumption that they were equipping weapons to harm you or that you made an attempt to give them commands or demands of some sort. This absence of communication made the overlooked act of putting the other party under FearRP completely null and void to begin with, however you claim that it was too difficult and risky for the situation you were presently in so you did not focus on it. This is where I would bring in your quote of the rules, "Roleplay should reflect on how you would approach a similar situation in real-life," (as well as having a "valid reason to hurt/eliminate somebody") and given its non-limiting nature I would have naturally agreed with you and dismissed the entire situation as a simple misunderstanding. Unfortunately, the evidence I was provided -- which I apologize for not being able to show you, however in my completely honest opinion I believe it was taken down due to the fact that it showed potential metagaming activity, which I verbally warned the reporting party for and directed them to strictly use Monolith's official Discord server -- forced me to declare that they were not, in fact, preparing to engage you, and that while communication with them would have been an inconvenience, it was not out of the question. I stand by your observation that it would have been wiser for them to avoid stopping near an active situation in the first place but, in all simplicity, two wrongs don't make a right. Ultimately, this situation was one that I derived my judgement from technicality rather than common sense despite the fact that the latter would be more reasonable in my opinion, but it is more responsible and factually-sound to argue a claim utilizing rules to substantiate said claim versus using realistic actions, logic, and so forth. I maintain that my judgement was in fact fair and correctly-issued, and it was not my intention to punish you harshly or excessively. I appreciate your concern for the judgement and its impact on your record, "reputation," and rank; however, I do not believe the outcome warranted your demotion, instead it was never my choice and rather it was a matter of formal protocol. If I had the ability to, I would veto that decision since the subject in question was one that walked a very fine line in a gray area that you did not intend to violate. Nonetheless, as I have mentioned this countless times before: I may only attend to my duties and accomplish them in a satisfactory manner by acting upon actions and evidence, not intent.

I will happily mutually agree with you on most if not all points mentioned in this, I agree that both parties had made mistakes during this situation and that I personally believe it could have been used as a learning curve for both parties and simply written off as a misunderstanding. I do now question the evidence against me to a point where they used it to convict me of RDM whilst also showing as you say them Meta-Gaming in a private discord which later left no evidence for them to show me due to them hiding that fact. I support what you do as an Administrator and to all other Staff on Monolith, I also appreciate the fact that you decreased the punishment from what I believe was a 2 Day Ban to a 24 hour Weapons Blacklist, and in all honesty I do believe that it could have been written up as more of a private learning curve for the future and again in my opinion did not necessarily require a demotion however I do understand that protocal and procedure heavily influenced the decision to demote me. Not to mention I appreciate your comment on "If you had the ability to you would veto the decision" but we both know that that decision is left to sombody else. You also commented the fact that it was a mere mistake on my behalf and that I did not purposely intend to violate any server rules, which is why I again would have preferred a mutual understanding between both parties that we had both done wrong and would be willing to return any items for compensation due to the situation.

Thank you for your reply @Predictable I merely made this topic to clear the air & to get a full understanding of the situation which you have provided. I also believe @Gregg wanted to know a bit more about the situation as he was curious about the events that happened that day. I am happy with another member of staff to deal with topic and to come to a decision on something along the lines of, punishment removal, Mentor reinstatement, or simply a closed topic.

 

[Gregg]

Under review.

 

[Gregg]

Hey there, thank you for your patience while I reviewed over both sides of this Staff Report.

From what I see, I do not see any wrong-doing on Predictable's part. This seems like this report was made to get a general understanding of the situation, and of course, see where Predictable came from on his part. Looking over his side, he handled the situation correctly. The hard part is keeping the evidence from the reporter, as at any time they can delete the video or take it down. I also do appreciate that he took note of wrongdoings on the reporting players part, and handled it, as they had used external communications.

As for your side, Violence. I had spoken to you briefly, and I will be transparent here as well. I see this moreso as a mistake, something to learn from, rather than you neglecting the rules and harming the community in your favor. You being taken off Mentor was a decision made by me at the time, and I am going to revert this decision under the firm understanding that this will never happen again during your time as Mentor. I hope I make myself clear here.

This report is going to be denied, as there was no wrongdoing on Predictable's part.

Thank you for your patience.