Staff Report - Shimax

[Violence]

Your Steam Name: Violence
Your Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:70324571
Your Character Name (If Applicable): Jay Violence

Admin being reported: @Shimax

Reason for Report: Accusation of Rule Breaks without Evidence - Inadequate Knowledge of Player vs Player Rules - Handling of Situation
Situation: My organisation associate was apparently being chased by Police and stopped off at Mechanics shop. Police arrived on scene and proceeded to taze and handcuff my friend. Another police vehicle arrived on scene with his weapon drawn and pointing at my friend. I exited my vehicle, equipped my weapon and proceeded to kill the police officers who had attempted to arrest my friend. I was preparing to leave however another police vehicle arrived on scene and I killed that officer as well. Throughout the whole situation there was no rule breaks and everything was done perfectly.

Moving on, I was then contacted through PM by Shimax that I had in fact RDM'd one of the officers (The Lieutenant who arrived on scene, pointed a rifle at my associate). You can see via the video that there was nothing wrong in the situation and even after I killed the officers I explained to their dead bodies why they were killed so they would know. Throughout the conversations that occurred through PM I was accused of RDM'ing someone with no evidence shown and no admin sit taking place, I then explained briefly what happened and Shimax replied saying "Because the officer that you killed did not arrest the individual) somehow means that I may not kill them at all even though they were all involved in the arrest of my associate. During the whole discussion through PM I was mind boggled at the fact that Shimax did not understand how that all 3 officers were involved the arrest of my associate and that I had the right to kill all of them, but he insisted that because the Lieutenant was just there I couldn't kill them and that it was in fact RDM? I will mention that the video in this report was not shown to Shimax throughout any of this nor was any other evidence shown to Shimax by the reporter or myself so he was basing everything off what another individual had said compared to me.
Time of Occurrence: 17:50 - 16:10pm
Evidence to support your claim:

To conclude, I was accused of breaking a server rule without evidence or an admin sit to find out both sides throughout the PM's & after explaining the situation I was told that "Because the Lieutenant was not the person who put the handcuffs on he was just minding his own business therefore you cannot kill them" is against the rules even though they were involved in the arrest of my friend and the handling of the situation was poor. Instead of dragging both individuals involved to an admin situation where we could both explain our sides, Shimax took word of the reporter (Because they were Staff essentially) and accused me of breaking a server rule without my side.

In the end JD only wanted to know why I killed them and whether I was in the same organisation or not which Shimax could of simply checked via logs or asked me through PM instead we went through this whole ordeal just for me to be cleared of committing any offence. JD apologised which IMO he had no reason to and I respect him however the way everything was just handled by Shimax is appalling to be honest.
Additional members involved/witnessing: @Frankyz + @The JD

 

[Shimax ツ]

Hi @Violence

I'm sorry that you feel this way about the situation, but a few things I'd like cleared up:

- I did take it to a sit, which you explained in further detail which you didn't in your PM's
- It sounded like you were saying "Yes I shot a Lt. for being in the vicinity of the arrest"
- I never punished you, so I don't understand what's wrong. I wouldn't have punished anyone, I didn't have adequate evidence nor did it escalate to the point of needing evidence. It was simply a case of what really happened.
- From one side I hear, at this point, a "higher-up" saying that it was RDM, that he wasn't doing anything.
- I got a report, responded to it and asked for both sides of the story. I never pm'd you everything based on the situation the reporter said.
- During the sit, I reviewed the whole situation. If I was accusing you, I would have been more one-sided. Little evidence other than another moderator saying "I was RDM'd" lead me to begin asking questions. Please don't think that because I asked "Why did you RDM a load of people?" I'm instantly accusing you. I never accused anyone.

Again, sorry if you felt attacked, threatened or accused. None of which I was doing. I honestly just thought that the Lieutenant wasn't even near, but after reviewing the evidence, it's clear it wasn't RDM. But again, I never punished you nor would have without evidence.

This was a summary of my side of the story.

 

[Violence]

I appreciate your apology and your reply, I'm just going to specify a few last things before I let whoever is going to deal with this to review it.

- I did take it to a sit, which you explained in further detail which you didn't in your PM's

So in almost any case a Staff Member will take it to a Admin Sit immediately and start it off that way, instead you started PM's by saying "Why did you shoot a load of random people in the head". I'm sorry but this is not the way to gather information for a report and you can see that I explained the situation as simple as possible. You took it to a sit after all of these PM's to find out the same information I said within the PM. Is more about procedure then anything, I'd rather of it been a sit straight away to get it out of the way instead of backwards and forwards PM's to then go to a admin sit in the end.

- It sounded like you were saying "Yes I shot a Lt. for being in the vicinity of the arrest"

In the video you teleported to JD pretty much within 10 seconds of me killing him, therefore you SAW all 3 bodies exactly in the same location so !? That literally makes no sense because you saw the location you saw his body and where it was so when the officer who tased and handcuffed my friend would have been in logs you would have seen me kill him and everyone else.

- I never punished you, so I don't understand what's wrong. I wouldn't have punished anyone, I didn't have adequate evidence nor did it escalate to the point of needing evidence. It was simply a case of what really happened.

A Staff Report doesn't need to be made based on receiving a punishment, it can be based on anything a Staff Member has done wrong.

- From one side I hear, at this point, a "higher-up" saying that it was RDM, that he wasn't doing anything.

Regardless of ranking within PD or Staff each admin sit is dealt with the same way as it would of been with any other player, again you should have really brought us to a sit and got us to both explain at the very beginning instead of listening to reporter and then sending PM's to question and accuse me.

I got a report, responded to it and asked for both sides of the story. I never pm'd you everything based on the situation the reporter said.

Again, based on the way you handled the report, you teleported to the reporter communicated via voice chat and then moved on to me through PM's? The screenshots show it all to be honest.

- During the sit, I reviewed the whole situation. If I was accusing you, I would have been more one-sided. Little evidence other than another moderator saying "I was RDM'd" lead me to begin asking questions. Please don't think that because I asked "Why did you RDM a load of people?" I'm instantly accusing you. I never accused anyone.

During the sit you barely spoke because when I explained and JD then accepted it you just ended the sit. What I saw as being one-sided was the PM's everything went wrong during the PM's.

Again, sorry if you felt attacked, threatened or accused. None of which I was doing. I honestly just thought that the Lieutenant wasn't even near, but after reviewing the evidence, it's clear it wasn't RDM. But again, I never punished you nor would have without evidence.

I appreciate your apology once again however the screenshot above clearly shows something else about "accusing" again not to mention that you teleported to JD and SAW his dead body next to the rest of the officers there is no possible way you thought the LT was nowhere near, that is literally pretty much a lie.

 

[Stuvi]

What I see is pure RDM. You're exiting your vehicle to save your friend but you don't know what he's being arrested for. You weren't even considering confronting the cops - you went straight for the kills.

A friend being arrested is not a valid reason to kill cops, especially not if you don't even know why he's being arrested.

This is not cops vs robbers or TDM.

 

[Violence]

What I see is pure RDM. You're exiting your vehicle to save your friend but you don't know what he's being arrested for. You weren't even considering confronting the cops - you went straight for the kills.

A friend being arrested is not a valid reason to kill cops, especially not if you don't even know why he's being arrested.

This is not cops vs robbers or TDM.

I don’t need to know why he’s being arrested whatever he is being arrested for wouldn’t change anything. The fact that they deployed a taser instantly, pointed lethal weapons at him and handcuffed him is good enough for me. I was not going to risk holding up 3 law enforcement officers with the Lieutenant still having his Rifle off safety pointing at my criminal organisation member that would just be plain stupid on my side, I took the act of surprise and released my associate from police custody.

I find it hard to believe that both moderators (The one I killed and the one handling the situation) would both say that it wasn’t RDM and then you to say that it is RDM. If they don’t know that what you stated is in fact true then how do you expect 80% of the community to know that including myself. Because honestly the majority of people would say that the reason you stated above is a good enough rp reason to kill police officers in the situation.

I wasn’t going to risk my associate being escorted and transported to the Police Department for him to be arrested and for us to have to conduct a PD Raid to save him when I can save him then and there. I’m sorry but in the end I’ll be running out of RP reasons to kill somebody.

 

[The JD]

@Stuvi Hello I called the sit as I was the LT and was confused. First off I don't think shimax acted bad at all maybe he should not have pmed but still Shimax handled the situation well. He needs an RP reason to kill and if your friend is being arrested.(which it was confirmed in the sit that they were friends) it is ok to kill the officers. I only called the sit to confirm they were in fact related because if they were not it would be RDM hence why I made the report. So I don't see how it was RDM?

 

[Frankyz]

Your Steam Name: Violence
Your Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:70324571
Your Character Name (If Applicable): Jay Violence

Admin being reported: @Shimax

Reason for Report: Accusation of Rule Breaks without Evidence - Inadequate Knowledge of Player vs Player Rules - Handling of Situation
Situation: My organisation associate was apparently being chased by Police and stopped off at Mechanics shop. Police arrived on scene and proceeded to taze and handcuff my friend. Another police vehicle arrived on scene with his weapon drawn and pointing at my friend. I exited my vehicle, equipped my weapon and proceeded to kill the police officers who had attempted to arrest my friend. I was preparing to leave however another police vehicle arrived on scene and I killed that officer as well. Throughout the whole situation there was no rule breaks and everything was done perfectly.

Moving on, I was then contacted through PM by Shimax that I had in fact RDM'd one of the officers (The Lieutenant who arrived on scene, pointed a rifle at my associate). You can see via the video that there was nothing wrong in the situation and even after I killed the officers I explained to their dead bodies why they were killed so they would know. Throughout the conversations that occurred through PM I was accused of RDM'ing someone with no evidence shown and no admin sit taking place, I then explained briefly what happened and Shimax replied saying "Because the officer that you killed did not arrest the individual) somehow means that I may not kill them at all even though they were all involved in the arrest of my associate. During the whole discussion through PM I was mind boggled at the fact that Shimax did not understand how that all 3 officers were involved the arrest of my associate and that I had the right to kill all of them, but he insisted that because the Lieutenant was just there I couldn't kill them and that it was in fact RDM? I will mention that the video in this report was not shown to Shimax throughout any of this nor was any other evidence shown to Shimax by the reporter or myself so he was basing everything off what another individual had said compared to me.
Time of Occurrence: 17:50 - 16:10pm
Evidence to support your claim:

To conclude, I was accused of breaking a server rule without evidence or an admin sit to find out both sides throughout the PM's & after explaining the situation I was told that "Because the Lieutenant was not the person who put the handcuffs on he was just minding his own business therefore you cannot kill them" is against the rules even though they were involved in the arrest of my friend and the handling of the situation was poor. Instead of dragging both individuals involved to an admin situation where we could both explain our sides, Shimax took word of the reporter (Because they were Staff essentially) and accused me of breaking a server rule without my side.

In the end JD only wanted to know why I killed them and whether I was in the same organisation or not which Shimax could of simply checked via logs or asked me through PM instead we went through this whole ordeal just for me to be cleared of committing any offence. JD apologised which IMO he had no reason to and I respect him however the way everything was just handled by Shimax is appalling to be honest.
Additional members involved/witnessing: @Frankyz + @The JD

Since im a witness here I guess i have permission to comment, if not then forum staff may delete this. So before this I was in a shootout with the cops and ran someone over trying to get away from there. So Violence knew that I was either going to be K.O.S or arrested for 30 minutes so when I was at the mechanics they just insta-tazed me because I was a big threat to them, Violence seeing his organization member being tazed and then arrested and pointed guns at acted out with intent to kill, confrontation was not needed since we already had it since before.

 

[Violence]

To be honest this report can be closed I’ve come to an understanding on how Shimax dealt with this and understand he is a Trial Mod and is still learning hopefully taking this into consideration whenever dealing with other reports.

However now I am more concerned about what stuvi has commented on the Player Vs Player rules. This needs to be cleared up IMMEDIATELY because a lot of players who have recently messaged me are not happy about the statement Stuvi made, and to include that multiple staff are now confused on whether this is or isn’t a valid RP Reason to kill police officers. This now needs to be confirmed ASAP because it’s going to cause a lot of issues with reports, bans and in-game situations.

This needs to be confirmed by members of the Server Management Team.

 

[Gurra]

Yeah, we'll try to get back with that after we have discussed the matter more in the staff team - there are some different opinions. There's a lot of LOAs right now, so unfortunately we may need a bit of time.

 

[Gurra]

Alright, we concluded that the kill was valid since there were many armed officers, one had their weapon up clearly visible and an arrest was imminent. A violent approach was sensible in this case. Remember, in more light and low police amount cases of police confrontations, simply killing immediately is quite excessive from a realism point of view which is the basis for validity of kills. In the future, we will probably restrict the determiner for who constitutes a "friend" quite notably. Until then, make sure the "friends" you're saving violently really are your friends.