xStewart Breaking simple rules and ruining RP Immersion

[Deleted member 12627]

Your Steam Name: Ghost
Your Steam ID: STEAM_0:0:121982224
Your Character Name (If Applicable): Simon Riley

Admin being reported( Tag by writing @ before their forum name) @StewartJames

Reason for Report:
FailRP/Un-authorized Corruption - Shot a random Civilian at bank for absolutely no reason
Breaking Immersion - Spawning cars in public and changing their colors
Revenge RDM - Killed me for demoting him for a valid reason, this is not allowed within the rules as it keeps cops safe for doing their jobs. The same applies if a cop arrests you, you cannot kill him for arresting you after you are released.

Time of Occurrence: 12:00 PM EST
Evidence to support your claim:

Additional members involved/witnessing: @brody @kman edgy @TheLoser27 @Arroyo
Read, understood and followed staff report rules?: Yes

 

[StewartJames]

All righty I'll walk through what happened here and we can set a precedent concerning the roles of rules on this server.

A) Rob Monster had stolen a vehicle and everyone was shouting code red. In jest, and quite verbally, I say "I'll demonstrate the reasoning of officer's code reds" *shoots once* "Radio said he was code red." This was in jest, between two consenting, and not dissenting, parties, and demonstrating a satirical yet important point to be considered. Robs health was immediately set back.

B) There is no rule against this whatsoever, and in fact zero guidelines against it as well. That having been said, this was in response to an invididual's joke, as I was trying to find a skin on a vehicle. This was present for a whole 24 seconds.

C) The rules do not in fact, state this at all. Further, I not only demanded my job back aggressively, but also roleplayed out "you took everything from me" etc. in an increasingly crazed way. Not only is this so far in character - we all know Stewart has now personality outside of the force - but was also given with fair roleplay warning. The failure of you and your officers to control the situation is nothing to do with me, and further, neither of us died fully so were not at any cost.

The atmosphere in this situation was one of jovial, fun and monolithrp-like strangeness. My role as a staff member and player is to encourage this, and also allow people to enjoy themselves. This was met by a rule focused rigidity on your part which to me not only demonstrates a lack of creativity necessary for all to enjoy this game, but also a blocking of RP entirely. Not only did you not say anything at all before demoting me, you now make a report in which there is simply no real victim.

The rules and mechanics we have in place are a baseline for roleplay. What actually happened here was a friendly, community like engagement between several parties, interrupted by a reductionist rule focused attitude of pressing demotion buttons and ignoring personalities, which is exactly what leads to fragrp. Whatever it is that you are trying to protect through this is neither the spirit, nor the basic intention, behind the creation of this server.

I would invite you and the staff member reviewing this to consider what alternative RP would have been MORE engaging for those present than a personal staff response made to a cultural playing issue, to a specific joke made and then a roleplay based response to a cold and ill informed demotion. Further, to consider what parties at all were actually victimised by these acts, and what rules if at all any have actually been broken with ill intent.

I would also invite you to consider your role as chief. Community and commitment are not well embodied by sititng with a traffic gun and handing out strikes to any officer going above the speed limit. Again, the rules and mechanics are a basis, the humans make this game come together. If anyone cannot deal with the surprising and dynamic nature of human beings, perhaps they may be better off playing with NPCs.

I will reply once more to any questions and then will leave this thread to it's lovely handlers.

 

[TheLoser27]

I'm not sure why I'm really @ in this report as nothing really was wrong we were all just messing around talking and what not.

 

[Deleted member 12627]

C) The rules do not in fact, state this at all. Further, I not only demanded my job back aggressively, but also roleplayed out "you took everything from me" etc. in an increasingly crazed way. Not only is this so far in character - we all know Stewart has now personality outside of the force - but was also given with fair roleplay warning. The failure of you and your officers to control the situation is nothing to do with me, and further, neither of us died fully so were not at any cost.

Oh really, It's also common sense not to kill an officer for demoting you because he's just doing his duties. I've made sits on this before in game multiple times and have gotten people warned/blacklisted by staff for this exact rule break. I'm currently on a weapon blacklist so I was 0 harm to you and I was not arresting you. You also asked for an impossible request which is Power gaming in a way, as you gave me no choice to give a right answer so I wouldn't die. It's an absolutely ridiculous request to give your job back when you know very well there is a timer and I couldn't give it back until those 15 minutes are up. This was an obvious bait to try and find a reason to kill me.

 

[Deleted member 12627]

The atmosphere in this situation was one of jovial, fun and monolithrp-like strangeness. My role as a staff member and player is to encourage this, and also allow people to enjoy themselves. This was met by a rule focused rigidity on your part which to me not only demonstrates a lack of creativity necessary for all to enjoy this game, but also a blocking of RP entirely. Not only did you not say anything at all before demoting me, you now make a report in which there is simply no real victim.

That doesn't give you the right to shoot an Un-armed civilian. I was well within my rights to fire you immediately, you just shot an un-armed civilian. You can and will be demoted instantly for such actions as it is blatant corruption, the only thing he did was drive and park your vehicle.

 

[Deleted member 12627]

I would also invite you to consider your role as chief. Community and commitment are not well embodied by sititng with a traffic gun and handing out strikes to any officer going above the speed limit. Again, the rules and mechanics are a basis, the humans make this game come together. If anyone cannot deal with the surprising and dynamic nature of human beings, perhaps they may be better off playing with NPCs.

I am taking my RP seriously, if I deem you are breaking the speed limit I will strike you as you are an officer of the law and you should be following the laws you carry out. I would also like to say this has no place in this report as this is a personal attack on my gameplay and RP style, and is not about what you are being reported for.

 

[StewartJames]

Oh really, It's also common sense not to kill an officer for demoting you because he's just doing his duties. I've made sits on this before in game multiple times and have gotten people warned/blacklisted by staff for this exact rule break. I'm currently on a weapon blacklist so I was 0 harm to you and I was not arresting you. You also asked for an impossible request which is Power gaming in a way, as you gave me no choice to give a right answer so I wouldn't die. It's an absolutely ridiculous request to give your job back when you know very well there is a timer and I couldn't give it back until those 15 minutes are up. This was an obvious bait to try and find a reason to kill me.

The rule you state is in reference to firearms situations, else normal pvp rules apply. Further "getting people blacklisted" is exactly the type of attitude that is dangerous for the enjoyment of others. You had the choice to talk me down, but opted for the phrase "I cant do that". You refusing was not my reason for killing, I already had the full intent and a valid reason, and added characterisation for this for the enjoyment of other players.

You are right - I did not have the "right" to shoot an unarmed civilian, I had their consent instead. Further, this might even be considered out of RP as rob says, the entire group was messing about.

I do pose an impersonal attack on your play style - it is vindictive, at the expense of other players, and critically against the culture of monolith. We are by name a semi serious RP server, with rules to support this. These rules are not here to support your lone need to play with 100% seriousness, while other players enjoy the same situations. Also, a serious roleplayer would still talk to an officer after a non lethal incident and discuss reasoning, so this is also a contradiction.

It seems to me this is a use of rules to the letter but not spirit to support a need for control, without reading the room and seeing how others feel. This is by definition, poor leadership, and so the role of chief is entirely relevant here.

My steadfast belief here is that this situation was a hotpot of creativity and engagement that was shortly and brashly stamped out to no one's benefit.

 

[Deleted member 12627]

The rule you state is in reference to firearms situations, else normal pvp rules apply. Further "getting people blacklisted" is exactly the type of attitude that is dangerous for the enjoyment of others. You had the choice to talk me down, but opted for the phrase "I cant do that". You refusing was not my reason for killing, I already had the full intent and a valid reason, and added characterisation for this for the enjoyment of other players.

That rule does not just apply for PvP that is false, you cannot harm an officer AT ALL unless he is an active threat to you and initiates via pulling a weapon on you/attempting to arrest you/Trying to get you to do anything that exposes you breaking a law and incriminating you. You also can shoot officers if they are a threat to your ORG members or radio members.

 

[Deleted member 12627]

You are right - I did not have the "right" to shoot an unarmed civilian, I had their consent instead. Further, this might even be considered out of RP as rob says, the entire group was messing about.

If you being demoted came from an out of character RP situation or "RP enhancement" then why did you use that consented situation to stab me in a non-consented situation? I don't get how you think you can dig yourself out of this one.

 

[Deleted member 12627]

1. You may not kill a player for simply insulting you. Threaten them with a firearm and alternatively shoot them to injure them first. If they persist after this, you are free to kill them.

I would also like to quote this rule before you go and try to use this as an excuse, I did not insult you. Therefore this rule is void, and you could not have used it against me since I was just performing my duties.

 

[Deleted member 12627]

Also, a serious roleplayer would still talk to an officer after a non lethal incident and discuss reasoning, so this is also a contradiction.

Are you serious? You've actually got to be kidding me? If an officer shot an un-armed civilian like that in real life, you would have been detained and arrested on the spot. No officer IRL would shoot a civilian standing in place with AN M4 CARBINE POINT BLANK TO THE CHEST.

I'm not responding anymore to this staff report, it's obvious he doesn't care to admit his rule breaks and is only trying to turn it on me instead. I will let community management handle this from here.

 

[StewartJames]

While I totally understand your view, I am aware that we are of two completely opposing philosophies, and neither need to be correct.

I will leave my statement as it is, but note that I cannot identify a specific rule broken, as I had roleplayed thoroughly and directly showed my intent and reasoning behind killing you - which you hardly suffered for. All the rest of this is in the benefit, and clear successful benefit, of other players who had a wonderful time playing off one another. The key term I see there is "detained and arrested" and perhaps this suggests the root of the problem - I was neither detained nor arrested, so sensed the roleplay unresolved. Leaving it there would be just using the mechanics of the game and nothing creative - the options remaining are retribution from you, or from me - either you to arrest me and let me defend my case that way, or for me to push my case through aggression. Else the end result is the entertainment of many players been stomped on by the police force, which is exactly the cause of fragrp and a sense of helplessness from criminals.

I have to stress to management that in this case I feel that words such as "it's obvious he doesn't care to admit his rule breaks" and "before you go and try to use this as an excuse" feel both accusatory and entrapping.

The issue here is one of a serious roleplayer and one of a semi serious roleplayer, and our server caters to the latter. None of the things stated are rule breaks and any that can be identified must only be due to a focus on the entertainment of the player base and the protection of a community from a "them vs us" cops vs robbers mess that leads to horrible experience for all.

It seems to me that Ghost, by no personal judgement of him, would be best suited to a FiveM server, rather than strongly vindicating individuals who cross against his preferred play style.

That having been said, should any of community management decide a change in philosophy, from semi serious and fun, human roleplay, to a more rigid and immersive simulation experience, I have totally no issue with accommodating that in my role.

I've come to the conclusion recently that the sheer volume of staff reports I receive comes from the fact that I believe in a need to extend, create and reconsider the game, which is a structure that allows this. Garry's mod is a sandbox, and our server is semi serious roleplay.

I soulfully invite players who continue to report me to let me know what they expect from the server so I can avoid offending them, but also to remember that they play a character, and our aim in the game is to create experiences. If this is not the case, I would expect to be told I am wrong by community management, and will be happy to change to act in line with the movement of development.

I have not yet been told this, at all.

Until then, I will remain to add to roleplay provided players consent, will it and find it entertaining, and will continue to play RP situations out to their full extent provided this is not prohibited by the rules - and, for clarity, the spirit the staff team perceives in the rules, not just the letters that Ghost picks out.

Thank you.

 

[Deleted member 12627]

It seems to me that Ghost, by no personal judgement of him, would be best suited to a FiveM server, rather than strongly vindicating individuals who cross against his preferred play style.

I said I wouldn't respond but this is absolutely ridiculous. Really? A staff member suggesting I leave the server and play another RP server?

The issue here is one of a serious roleplayer and one of a semi serious roleplayer, and our server caters to the latter. None of the things stated are rule breaks and any that can be identified must only be due to a focus on the entertainment of the player base and the protection of a community from a "them vs us" cops vs robbers mess that leads to horrible experience for all.

The issue is you fail to abide by the rules set in place for us the players, you are a staff member set to a higher standard you should be following these said rules.

While I totally understand your view, I am aware that we are of two completely opposing philosophies, and neither need to be correct.

It's not a philosophy, you either follow the rules set by the management to carry our your RP or you don't. You stabbed me when you could have easily waited later and found a place to hold me up and continue RP from there. You did it in front of a security guard and another officer acting as if you had some sort of KOS on me. I just want to let you know, if I did what you just did to me. I would have been blacklisted from not only cop, but most definitely weapons as well. This double standard you are trying to set here is not really helping this case, if I did what you did I would be punished. You do it however and it's "Enhancing RP", you're playing the victim.

 

[StewartJames]

I said I wouldn't respond but this is absolutely ridiculous. Really? A staff member suggesting I leave the server and play another RP server?

The issue is you fail to abide by the rules set in place for us the players, you are a staff member set to a higher standard you should be following these said rules.

It's not a philosophy, you either follow the rules set by the management to carry our your RP or you don't. You stabbed me when you could have easily waited later and found a place to hold me up and continue RP from there. You did it in front of a security guard and another officer acting as if you had some sort of KOS on me. I just want to let you know, if I did what you just did to me. I would have been blacklisted from not only cop, but most definitely weapons as well. This double standard you are trying to set here is not really helping this case, if I did what you did I would be punished. You do it however and it's "Enhancing RP", you're playing the victim.

Right I'll stop after this else the majority of points will be lost to noise, but no, if you did do this and were reported for it I would pretty much ignore the report. It's “random” tase, deathmatch, arrest for a reason. It's someone abusing the systems to upset other players, randomly and with no rp. If there's an inkling that the situation happened for a reason and wasn't random, I push and others push for an IC resolution, and I'm actively having discussions about how much of rp should have staff intervention at all.

Also, I'm not just a “staff member.” I'm a human who wants the best for others, and for you, I believe that your values might be better matched by a fivem server. You might have a better experience, so I'm making a heartfelt suggestion.

I'm in no way playing a victim, just aware that there is actually a dichotomy here that needs addressing, where I'm sure you only feel a need to stamp out the “rulebreak.”

Both are totally valid and important attitudes, just be aware that it might be worth exploring other options as well as monolith to quell those frustrations.

Thanks, I'll leave it all up to the gods of the forums now to decide.

 

[Deleted member 12627]

Both are totally valid and important attitudes, just be aware that it might be worth exploring other options as well as monolith to quell those frustrations.

I wouldn't be frustrated if you would follow the rules like your players are supposed to, end of discussion. I like you as a staff member I really do, you handle rule breaks in RP and that's what makes you special to the the community. This however, trying to say it wasn't within my right to report such a rule break because it was "Played well in RP" does not give you the right to break rules.

 

[Deleted member 12627]

I'd like to finally quote something from @HockeyExpert30

"We are trying to make the police chief spot more serious and make sure officers are more serious about their jobs"

One of your own staff members said that the police department is to be taken more serious now because it has more of an affect on the players. To say that me, the acting chief should not take action against someone who just point blanked an un-armed civilian with an automatic rifle should be first discussed before I demote you is insane. I just wanted to clarify that since you think I should have given you a strike I guess instead.

What I am clarifying below

Also, a serious roleplayer would still talk to an officer after a non lethal incident and discuss reasoning, so this is also a contradiction.

 

[StewartJames]

I'd like to finally quote something from @HockeyExpert30


One of your own staff members said that the police department is to be taken more serious now because it has more of an affect on the players. To say that me, the acting chief should not take action against someone who just point blanked an un-armed civilian with an automatic rifle should be first discussed before I demote you is insane. I just wanted to clarify that since you think I should have given you a strike I guess instead.

What I am clarifying below

Oh totally you're within your rights to report it, I'd never suggest not to and I think this will be important in defining our community.

And of course similar applies in a differing in attitudes here - I worked with hockey defining this system and personally would have taken an information based approach - taking control and asking what happened, rather than switching it off. Intelligence led policing is indeed the next step.

I think we better stop now lol

 

[Deleted member 12627]

Intelligence led policing is indeed the next step.

Exactly, this is why I demoted you instantly. You failed to show the necessary will to be a police officer when you capped a civilian for nothing.

I think we better stop now lol

I agree, this will be my actual last response.

 

[PMX]

Locked for review.

 

[PMX]

Hello,

I have reviewed this report and would like to note a few things:

• Please use voice chat only for in character communication. For OOC communications, either use LOOC (.//) or OOC (//);
• Stewart should not have shot the person, as there was no reason for him to do it. He was spoken to about this and assured me it won't happen again and that he will be more careful next time;
• The demotion was obviously valid and he shouldn't have killed you over it, especially since he requested you to give him his job back when, in reality, you were not able to do so, even if you wanted to.

With that said, stewart will be more careful in the future.
Concluded.