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twofone

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For someone like me, I no longer look forward to hopping onto Monolith, being able to play with some of the coolest civs, org members, and staff members without having to tiptoe the rules in hopes of not being banned. Now, the environment between player on player and player on staff interactions has grown to be a love-hate relationship (Toxic, so to speak) that has strayed too far from the community that was once on Rockford.
I've only been playing monolith for a few months but I can speak from a "new players perspective". I've put many many hours into the server over the past few months I have been online. The biggest issue I see day in and day out seems to always spawn from the staff. You put it the best in saying tiptoe with the rules because that is literally what it is. The hypocrisy the player base sees with staff in this server is unreal. Troubled staff are almost never held accountable and the player base is reprimanded for the smallest rule breaks imaginable. I have a lot of fun and enjoy the content, I also pay for premium. The number 1 complaint I have as a newer player other than the occasional bugs and glitches is literally just staff. At the end of the day the staff gets it easy and the players feel the wrath.
 

Sp00py_Troller

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biggest reason why I don't play the server as much as I used to is because cops happen, and just burnout, but mostly cops. They act so dumb all the time its unbelievable, I'll literally be afk for 20 minutes and get arrested for breaking into prison, or be standing still and tased without being told im under arrest, or tased for not facing the camera, and when I say tase I mean the mode that takes away 90% of your health. Another example is they literally code red and full kill me because I drifted a car and tapped a cop car, the rules supported the code red because I was on a jet ski, so apparently I deserve to have my life taken from me because the rubber that supports my car went sideways against concrete.
 

StewartJames

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A lot of these issues come back to the fact that staff and development focus extremely on emptying things out of the economy. This makes basic gameplay remove things from the player and means player experience, from death bugs to refunds, come second to making sure we lose enough guns and money all the time to make the economy continue as it is.

Perhaps other approaches would be better, instead of minimal gains that disproportionately affect poorer players who don't have 90 guns in their premium bank account they can afford to lose.
 

DevulTj

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A lot of these issues come back to the fact that staff and development focus extremely on emptying things out of the economy. This makes basic gameplay remove things from the player and means player experience, from death bugs to refunds, come second to making sure we lose enough guns and money all the time to make the economy continue as it is.

Perhaps other approaches would be better, instead of minimal gains that disproportionately affect poorer players who don't have 90 guns in their premium bank account they can afford to lose.
Such as?
 

StewartJames

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We could look at server wipes (extreme), or discounting the price of game-necessary items for newer players such as bank bags, factory crushers etc. We could also investigate how the building towards player to player interactions by stocking low grade foods in NPCs affects new players.

We could also look at the viability of a loans system from the bank, or a rentals system so new players and poorer players can rent items rather than invest large sums to buy them - perhaps renting the cookers in ronnies.

Bank robberies might cause a loss other real players money, some of which is insured, as another way.

The restrictions on players ability to do certain actions without renting a property also reduced roleplay and increased reports. Today was the first time I saw a player made passive rp structure in the form of a "favela" built near bridge. Usually players don't do this because they cannot profit without renting a property. This player was profiting from farming on the brick of trinity and so this clever build was removed. People lock themselves in their houses and then make a refund request if raided or similar. This also means going out on the streets becomes "unsafe" and increases fragrp; the same streets where players used to cook food and mend items for one another in public. This also plays into the shop system - marketing in public meant pop up markets and sales new players could benefit from. Now people either make a shop that gets PD raided or advertise and get warranted.

The high cost of death was made to increase life value, but causes others to shoot first and ask questions later so they don't lose items. The raised death bills mixed with the material losses from deaths and long death timer all ended up causing more fragrp and less trust and risk taking which is where fun and RP come from.

The attempt at managing and controlling unrealistic RP through development has accidentally created a city where no one trusts each other or acts charitably, locks themselves inside their houses, and shoots anything that moves. The way the server drives down profits has caused players to focus on making profit, and completely disregard the opportunity to be in a good community and have fun. Gang wars used to be funny, now they're just a business decision.

Free up the options players have, maybe even giving them toolguns, and trust players and the staff team to behave and follow the rules, and you'll find they respond well and start playing in ways that are not simply drone like and copying what the rules explicitly allow, and also not rulebreaking and bad for others.

You can do this through in game freedom, and by rewriting the rules to be a freedom based system - "you can do anything you like except these things", instead of a complex and messy rulebook built case by case through small reforms - for instance, I still find it silly but not unfair that I had a staff report accepted for walking into townhall and taking the mayor hostage, resulting in a 10 minute negotiation with no deaths, including the mayor. This was a positive situation which even the hostage enjoyed, and resulted in no losses to other players and even no violence. However, due to a mistrust of players to act positively, a rule exists that prevents someone from raiding townhall for any reason other than killing the mayor, and so I was punished.

The more players are restricted, the more they will start to misbehave for fun as they feel they do not belong to a community. The more freedom they have, the more they will build together. This includes the staff team - I understand why report times can be so long, because why take reports if all the game enforces is a city with empty streets and people locked in buildings?
 

Credence

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We could look at server wipes (extreme), or discounting the price of game-necessary items for newer players such as bank bags, factory crushers etc. We could also investigate how the building towards player to player interactions by stocking low grade foods in NPCs affects new players.

We could also look at the viability of a loans system from the bank, or a rentals system so new players and poorer players can rent items rather than invest large sums to buy them - perhaps renting the cookers in ronnies.

Bank robberies might cause a loss other real players money, some of which is insured, as another way.

The restrictions on players ability to do certain actions without renting a property also reduced roleplay and increased reports. Today was the first time I saw a player made passive rp structure in the form of a "favela" built near bridge. Usually players don't do this because they cannot profit without renting a property. This player was profiting from farming on the brick of trinity and so this clever build was removed. People lock themselves in their houses and then make a refund request if raided or similar. This also means going out on the streets becomes "unsafe" and increases fragrp; the same streets where players used to cook food and mend items for one another in public. This also plays into the shop system - marketing in public meant pop up markets and sales new players could benefit from. Now people either make a shop that gets PD raided or advertise and get warranted.

The high cost of death was made to increase life value, but causes others to shoot first and ask questions later so they don't lose items. The raised death bills mixed with the material losses from deaths and long death timer all ended up causing more fragrp and less trust and risk taking which is where fun and RP come from.

The attempt at managing and controlling unrealistic RP through development has accidentally created a city where no one trusts each other or acts charitably, locks themselves inside their houses, and shoots anything that moves. The way the server drives down profits has caused players to focus on making profit, and completely disregard the opportunity to be in a good community and have fun. Gang wars used to be funny, now they're just a business decision.

Free up the options players have, maybe even giving them toolguns, and trust players and the staff team to behave and follow the rules, and you'll find they respond well and start playing in ways that are not simply drone like and copying what the rules explicitly allow, and also not rulebreaking and bad for others.

You can do this through in game freedom, and by rewriting the rules to be a freedom based system - "you can do anything you like except these things", instead of a complex and messy rulebook built case by case through small reforms - for instance, I still find it silly but not unfair that I had a staff report accepted for walking into townhall and taking the mayor hostage, resulting in a 10 minute negotiation with no deaths, including the mayor. This was a positive situation which even the hostage enjoyed, and resulted in no losses to other players and even no violence. However, due to a mistrust of players to act positively, a rule exists that prevents someone from raiding townhall for any reason other than killing the mayor, and so I was punished.

The more players are restricted, the more they will start to misbehave for fun as they feel they do not belong to a community. The more freedom they have, the more they will build together. This includes the staff team - I understand why report times can be so long, because why take reports if all the game enforces is a city with empty streets and people locked in buildings?
if server wipes are EVER a thing they should be optional and not mandatory.
 

DangerZone640

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if server wipes are EVER a thing they should be optional and not mandatory.
For something like mono, people invest too much time for it to wipe. Also with how difficult I’d be to shake the economy it wouldn’t be the best idea.
 

Credence

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For something like mono, people invest too much time for it to wipe. Also with how difficult I’d be to shake the economy it wouldn’t be the best idea.
i think it may be nice only for it to be able to wipe your skills and nothing else.
 

StewartJames

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Wipe was literally one, and the least important, of the ten things I said...
 

DevulTj

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We could look at server wipes (extreme), or discounting the price of game-necessary items for newer players such as bank bags, factory crushers etc. We could also investigate how the building towards player to player interactions by stocking low grade foods in NPCs affects new players.

We could also look at the viability of a loans system from the bank, or a rentals system so new players and poorer players can rent items rather than invest large sums to buy them - perhaps renting the cookers in ronnies.

Bank robberies might cause a loss other real players money, some of which is insured, as another way.

The restrictions on players ability to do certain actions without renting a property also reduced roleplay and increased reports. Today was the first time I saw a player made passive rp structure in the form of a "favela" built near bridge. Usually players don't do this because they cannot profit without renting a property. This player was profiting from farming on the brick of trinity and so this clever build was removed. People lock themselves in their houses and then make a refund request if raided or similar. This also means going out on the streets becomes "unsafe" and increases fragrp; the same streets where players used to cook food and mend items for one another in public. This also plays into the shop system - marketing in public meant pop up markets and sales new players could benefit from. Now people either make a shop that gets PD raided or advertise and get warranted.

The high cost of death was made to increase life value, but causes others to shoot first and ask questions later so they don't lose items. The raised death bills mixed with the material losses from deaths and long death timer all ended up causing more fragrp and less trust and risk taking which is where fun and RP come from.

The attempt at managing and controlling unrealistic RP through development has accidentally created a city where no one trusts each other or acts charitably, locks themselves inside their houses, and shoots anything that moves. The way the server drives down profits has caused players to focus on making profit, and completely disregard the opportunity to be in a good community and have fun. Gang wars used to be funny, now they're just a business decision.

Free up the options players have, maybe even giving them toolguns, and trust players and the staff team to behave and follow the rules, and you'll find they respond well and start playing in ways that are not simply drone like and copying what the rules explicitly allow, and also not rulebreaking and bad for others.

You can do this through in game freedom, and by rewriting the rules to be a freedom based system - "you can do anything you like except these things", instead of a complex and messy rulebook built case by case through small reforms - for instance, I still find it silly but not unfair that I had a staff report accepted for walking into townhall and taking the mayor hostage, resulting in a 10 minute negotiation with no deaths, including the mayor. This was a positive situation which even the hostage enjoyed, and resulted in no losses to other players and even no violence. However, due to a mistrust of players to act positively, a rule exists that prevents someone from raiding townhall for any reason other than killing the mayor, and so I was punished.

The more players are restricted, the more they will start to misbehave for fun as they feel they do not belong to a community. The more freedom they have, the more they will build together. This includes the staff team - I understand why report times can be so long, because why take reports if all the game enforces is a city with empty streets and people locked in buildings?
Wipes are not going to happen. It's too destructive.

Factory system is meant to have a cost associated to it. It's a one time investment, that's it.

Loans? No. People will just make alt accounts, to trade to their other accounts.

Cost of death is being decreased in 2.0.

Giving players toolguns is a bad idea. We want to do the opposite, control the deploying of props and stuff in the gamemode instead of with a physgun. Physguns are honestly too mingy and people just build so unrealistically because of it.

We intend on making shops more useful, namely for making meals in 2.0 with cooking.

Also, I feel like you're very much not in a position to discuss staff conduct for someone who's probably had the most accepted staff reports in their time here.
 

StewartJames

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are not going to happen. It's too destructive.

Factory system is meant to have a cost associated to it. It's a one time investment, that's it.

Loans? No. People will just make alt accounts, to trade to their other accounts.

Cost of death is being decreased in 2.0.
I take issue with the fact that CM's can just ask for suggestions and then essentially say no to all of them before going in for a personal attack.

Also, 2, maybe 3 accepted reports for actual rulebreaks?

There goes my care to invest time trying to help with improving the server.
 

TheLoser27

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Also, 2, maybe 3 accepted reports for actual rulebreaks?

There goes my care to invest time trying to help with improving the server.
I mean, all your time invested in these suggestions is you just attacking people really by saying "Your just punishing people for playing a game"'
and it's like 6 accepted
 

StewartJames

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I mean, all your time invested in these suggestions is you just attacking people really by saying "Your just punishing people for playing a game"'
and it's like 6 accepted
I've been saying this since the start of my time here, and by punishing I mean through in game mechanical penalties such as losing money and long, black empty screens.
 

Arthgallo Trefynwy

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We could also look at the viability of a loans system from the bank, or a rentals system so new players and poorer players can rent items rather than invest large sums to buy them - perhaps renting the cookers in ronnies.
Bank robberies might cause a loss other real players money, some of which is insured, as another way.
That'd be dip. Robberies from the bank right now don't have any affect on anyone other than the robbers and the PD. Making it a thing that affects the well-being of the economy could be a way to give a sense of purpose to security guards other than detaining people that withdraw guns.
I know the devs are saying that loans would just cause people to use alts to get more money, but I think if you tied that with a loanshark system that pegged collections to an actual job - where you could take their props/repo their cars to get the difference - would be interesting. It'd absolutely be like nothing else in the game right now.
The restrictions on players ability to do certain actions without renting a property also reduced roleplay and increased reports. Today was the first time I saw a player made passive rp structure in the form of a "favela" built near bridge. Usually players don't do this because they cannot profit without renting a property. This player was profiting from farming on the brick of trinity and so this clever build was removed. People lock themselves in their houses and then make a refund request if raided or similar. This also means going out on the streets becomes "unsafe" and increases fragrp; the same streets where players used to cook food and mend items for one another in public. This also plays into the shop system - marketing in public meant pop up markets and sales new players could benefit from. Now people either make a shop that gets PD raided or advertise and get warranted.
The attempt at managing and controlling unrealistic RP through development has accidentally created a city where no one trusts each other or acts charitably, locks themselves inside their houses, and shoots anything that moves. The way the server drives down profits has caused players to focus on making profit, and completely disregard the opportunity to be in a good community and have fun. Gang wars used to be funny, now they're just a business decision.

This has been a really big problem since the server moved maps to Monoford AND whatever update changed the cooking system/restricted passive classes like DJs renting properties AND the update that let anyone jack your shit if they kill you when you have things listed for sale on your property [Not sure if that last point is still valid - the last time I tried selling anything it was and I stopped RPing after that because I lost like $40k in parts after some guy just walked up and shot me in the head to take my stuff].

I used to be able to make a very small profit RPing as a furniture salesman in TrueNorth - the downtown block by the diner was REALLY well laid out for selling props/setting up, well, diners because it was all easily walkable, had ample parking, and was near enough to the PD that anyone shooting it up would be heard. With how the current map is laid out, there's only a handful of overtly specific rentable shops in walking distance of spawn. I wasn't doing this for the profit, it was just fun to sell beds and fridges to people. IIRC the one time I used stone panels to make a hobo hut and beg for change, someone told me to pick them up or they'll be deleted. Why? I think, and agree, that there's a VERY clear delineation in using props to RP differently VS just spawning shit to minge.

Currently, it's way too fucking hard to do any kind of passive RP, and I've brought this up repeatedly on other threads. You currently can't DJ without having a buddy to rent a property - if you set up in a public space you'll get mugged and lose your transmitter. The majority of the time you set up shop selling literally anything, you'll either get RDMed (good luck getting the refund if you weren't recording) or raided without justification because if you die, all your shit is up for grabs. This is why I don't think I've ever seen someone running a shop outside the downtown area in Monoford - or rarely a gunshop in Falcon Creek. People would kill you and just wait for you to respawn so the distance restriction on your goods would start and they can just take everything. Yeah, that's probably more accurate to an armed robbery gone wrong IRL but in game all it does is stop people from wanting to RP as a shopkeep.

This all plays together - as you said, nobody wants to do anything other than shoot each other or rob because there's no mechanism that rewards passive RP. Why would I open a store selling chairs and beds if I know I stand a 70% chance of getting shot and killed because it's easier to kill someone and take their spawned items than RP a sale?
because why take reports if all the game enforces is a city with empty streets and people locked in buildings?
I really think a big part of this is the maps' layout. It encourages dispersion of the player base to individual houses as there's no central congregation area. Remember the open market/steps of town hall on True North? That ALWAYS had half the server sitting on it. Ditto for Rockford - hazy memory but there was a park near the PD that usually had an assload of people in it. Those places exist on the current map, but the layout of the city doesn't put them in a good location. That's probably why everyone just hangs out in front of the hospital - there's a big park down the road but the first thing you see after you spawn is a concrete planter and the tiny little bench area at hospital.
 
D

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Also, 2, maybe 3 accepted reports for actual rulebreaks?

There goes my care to invest time trying to help with improving the server.
No offense but you had a lot of accepted/concluded ones. Not to mention the Thousands of VDM’s you had off record that you didn’t get reported for because when you had your staff you just revived the people you ran over. I still like you as a player stew, but your time was coming at some point.
 
D

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Currently, it's way too fucking hard to do any kind of passive RP, and I've brought this up repeatedly on other threads
Passive RP is pretty hard to pull off, you usually need friends or a staff who will make your passive RP look nice.
 

KbsmokeJDM

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I love that this topic was created, it needed to be discussed.

I haven't played Mono in about a year. Last time I hopped on, the lack of older "veteran" players was very prominent, crime wasn't being committed, no large organizations were around anymore. It shows how little the server is enjoyed anymore.

I'm not one to start dissing staff members and I'm not attempting to do that here. But, we do have to realize that the lack of staff involvement on rulebreaks is slim to none, and when they do get involved, punishments are harsh to the point of damn near exile. Look, I understand records of rule breaks are important, but the last time I was personally banned for VDM, they brought up a case from 3 years ago. 3. years. ago. That is absurd.

My response will most likely get deleted because of this, but the entire Monolith Exposed videos caused mass loss of players. Some healthy players actually brought roleplay and some that didn't. I understand why some were removed from the player base, but permanent bans for anything other than exploits or cheating sucks. People that are permanently banned still want to play, but cannot get through to certain staff members about their apology.

Y'all act like the server will continue to be successful when the truth of the matter is it isn't just the server dying, its Garry's Mod in general. If you want to continue to be successful, start looking at previous bans. Start unbanning people, start taking sits in a timely fashion. Might save the server.
 

DevulTj

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Anyway. This thread has run its course, and it's deterred into a way to insult the staff team and the dev team. Thank you to the ones who displayed constructive criticisms, and as always we strive to improve on these points.

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